[Kellen Conover]

I see what your saying, sorry to assume. We used to run several 3/8 with the upright mini sprints so I wouldn't see a problem with the HPD series running them and having engine issues.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester Well Waynesfield isn't exactly small. Id say its 3/8ths and Atomic surely isn't small. And Dad, I get your point on clearances, tollerances etc. They are making stock equptment that holds up better than a lot of racing stuff. I've said for years that Midget racing should go to them small v6s of the 70s, early eighties that ford and chevy had in their vegas and capri's I blew many a small block chevy off the road 0-60 in my 76 Capri and then they would gain and pull away.

Charles

These new motors are light years ahead of them little motors. Remember the little aluminum V8 GM put in the Olds Cutlas in the 60's? They ran pretty good in the midgets can't remember off hand who raced them. Then we had Bettehausen with his Falcon Midget or Porsche Midget. Midget. Racers experimented back in the past. Now they get their check book and a grocery cart and buy everything ready Made. Too bad all the check books are drying up.

Honest Dad himself

[LEADERS EDGE]

So you feel like the Esslingers toyotas and such are of poor quality? They just randomly assemble parts with no research and development? I've got nothing against the Focus HPD series.....just don't tell me they don't have engine problems from time to time. Same with cycle engines

[cbhhms17439]

I know the mini or lightning sprints have been invited to run with the HPD midgets on the dirt but are we allowed to run the pavement races also I may be wrong not sure but are we being invited to run with them cause they dont have a big enough of a car count on there own and how competive will we be against them and what will happen when they do start getting plenty of HPD midgets will we be tossed to the side after helping them get there car count up ?????

[Jim Gardner]

Hopefully we are allowed to run on pavement as well. Would love to run Columbus or the Shadybowl. Hopefully the series takes off and they don't need the lightning sprints to fill fields in the future- that would be great to see. I hope there are that many new car owners down the road. Either way I'm looking forward to running Limaland and Atomic for the first time, as well as Waynesfield without the crutch. Should be a fun summer.

Throw one of those TBA dates at Lawrenceburg and let's see what these things can really do.

[Avon Open Wheel fan]

It would be interesting to see what the lightning sprints ccould do on pavement. Would open up some new doors. I bet even wing lightning sprints could be interesting on Pavement.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by LEADERS EDGE So you feel like the Esslingers toyotas and such are of poor quality? They just randomly assemble parts with no research and development? I've got nothing against the Focus HPD series.....just don't tell me they don't have engine problems from time to time. Same with cycle engines

leader

By no means are they low quality, but the manufactures have the resources to achieve a very precise tolerance. They are on the leading edge of developing equipment and techniques for achieving these very precise tolerances and finish only dreamed about by the engine builders. Most engine builders are now using a profilometer to check surface finish. The manufactures have been using them for decades.

I am pretty familiar with modern day motorcycle engines. Each bearing in one of those little engines is fitted to its particular journal, and bearing bore size. Using main bearing specifications as an example.

The acceptable main bearing clearance is .0004 inches to .0014 inches. A human hair will lock the bearing up.

The tolerance on the main bearing journal is 1.3773 inches to 1.3780 inches
.0007" under and the crank is junk they don't have undersize bearings so to speak. Each journal is measured and size noted on the crankshaft next to that journal.

They also measure each individual main bearing bore. The tolerance is from 1.4961 smallest to 1.4967 largest and mark each main bearing bore accordingly. .0006" and the block is junk.

To put it all together if each part is in specification the manufacture offers 3 sizes of main bearings sized by the bearing's thickness.

Brown the thinnest at>>> (0.05870 to 0.05886)
Black at the middle >>>>(0.05886 to 0.05902)
Blue the thickest>>>>>> (0.05902 to 0.05917)

When I started out we would almost call these numbers interference fits, but because of more precise machine work and the invent of micro-finishing these are running tolerances.

In the old days if you erred you erred in the favor of loose in modern engines you shoot for tight. In the old days you compensated with oil viscosity. Today that is not a good idea. The use of engine heaters is to try to get the operating clearances to open up just a little because of inaccuracy in machining and trying to keep the clearance as tight as possible.

The newer small automotive motors are also going to selective fit on their bearings.

Does Esslinger or anyone else offer main bearings in three specific sizes with a total difference in bore between the largest and smallest of .00064 inches (64/100,000 inch)? Some bearing manufactures do offer a .001" (100/100,000 inch) undersize bearing and then .010" through maybe .040" undersize.

Their are guys out there that can do produce tolerance numbers like these in limited and small numbers (= Very Expensive) but the manufactures produce these numbers thousands of times every day.

Honest Dad himself

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Avon Open Wheel fan It would be interesting to see what the lightning sprints ccould do on pavement. Would open up some new doors. I bet even wing lightning sprints could be interesting on Pavement.

Jay

There would be a lot of racers looking for some big money sponsors. Pavement requires lots and lots of tires and lots and lots of Horsepower to be competitive. Not to mention very specific changes in chassis and suspension.

Honest Dad himself

[Crankin]

Originally Posted by cbhhms17439 I know the mini or lightning sprints have been invited to run with the HPD midgets on the dirt but are we allowed to run the pavement races also I may be wrong not sure but are we being invited to run with them cause they dont have a big enough of a car count on there own and how competive will we be against them and what will happen when they do start getting plenty of HPD midgets will we be tossed to the side after helping them get there car count up ?????

WARNING! WARNING! Bitter Old Man About To Speak His Mind! WARNING!
A.K.A.: Therapy for the soul to get this off my chest to the 8 or so people that might care!

Four score and 700 years ago, I was asked to be the Midwest Competition Director for the Focus series when it first started, under Eric Bunn. (In case you're wondering, I had previous Race Director experience in another series). I turned it down at the time because I finally had the opportunity to go be a a "big time" race car driver.... And some of you know how that went! No regrets though, and I always figured someday I would end up working at USAC (Strange career goal I know, but I knew I had something to offer).

Fast forward 698 years, and I get a call in April from James Spink, asking if I would like to run the Midwest Series, and I jumped at the chance.
After being brought up to speed by James about what was going on with the series, and the looming deal with Honda, I went to work. I was going to do everything I could think of to make this series strong again.
I won't bother going into the Honda thing (well maybe a little , and how it was implemented by upper management, last year's car counts in the series speak volumes on that alone.

Looking big picture at the future of the series, and not just at the $ in USAC's pocket from Honda, I presented allowing similar horsepowered cars to run with us. Like any new thing, some liked the idea, others didn't, but pretty much other than the folks who had self interest or an already cashed check, knew it was the way to go to strengthen the series for the future. This thought process was for a series that was averaging 7-8 cars a night using an engine that was no longer being made, to as high as 18 cars (on dirt)... All within a few months! I only mention this to not toot my own horn, but to show how well it worked, and what would have been possible after a year or two of doing this. Put another way, the D2 (forget the name thing for a minute, they're still Midgets to me) ground swell is happening now (2 years later), and will do nothing but continue to get bigger! The writing has been on the wall for sometime that this more affordable type of Midget racing was going to be the way to go for people that just want to race, but still be able to feed their families.

So during this time we we're running a series based on engine that was no longer being made, with an engine coming that had by late in the season, was just seeing initial testing in a car. No plans we're being given the current competitors as to what their options were going to be for the next season. The folks at Honda are getting upset that other engines are being allowed to run, even though there was no plan in place to implement their engine. Also basic things like cost of the engine (that had not even been seriously tested in a Midget by late August of the current season), or what would happen to the Focus engine and the people who ran them? Heck, to take that a step further, it was my understanding that first Honda wasn't even available for purchase until well after PRI for the upcoming season?!

During the season, I met for the first time, the guy who is currently running the series. To say that he treated me, and my wife, rudely, is an understatement. Didn't know him, never met him, he wasn't running a car in the series, and I couldn't understand why? When I eventually asked him what the problem was, he flat out told me that he hated the idea of letting other cars run in the series, and believed it was wrong.

Now sorry to get personal, but that is the way it went down, and takes us to another point that will come up later.
My response to him, was the same as anyone else that would listen. I was just trying to strengthen the series as a whole. In it's current state (at the time), there was no real plan, other than the Honda is coming. People were leaving the series because of the unrest, and racing elsewhere. Exposing the series to other competitors might help get more racers to buy the Honda when it finally arrives. AND. If you think that the current crop of people are just going run out and pay $10-$12k (remember, nobody even knew what it was going to cost) for a new motor, in a series that on a good night, runs for $75 to start and $300 to win (AND NO POINT FUND!), ummm, well your crazy! Other thoughts were things like, why wouldn't Honda want the competition from Ford, Chevy, etc., to prove they have the best product? Otherwise, if you go all Honda, you basically are not going to have a series at all? That was, and proved to be (see last year's car counts) very true.

I could go on here, but I'll try to shorten this up...
So now, heading into last year's race season, that very same Series Director, that guy above him, and Honda who were sooo against letting other engines in the series, suddenly allow other engines to run. Wow, imagine that? Did they just suddenly realize they had a problem? They not only were going to let them run, but they would be allowed to run for points too (on dirt).... Or so they were told. Feel free to ask Patrick Brun how that worked out. Feel free to ask the Schucks how they were treated.... Sorry, this s%&t pi&*sses me off... Breathe.... Breathe.

Now, I read what Jimmie Gardner has posted... That they're going to let Mini Sprints run too??! PLEASE, Mini Sprint guys, I have NOTHING against you. I own and drove my own 1200 Mini Sprint for 2 years, and loved it! I repeat, this rant has NOTHING against you!

IF this is true, the guys that were not only against letting other engines in the series, are now letting chain drives in as well? If this doesn't CLEARLY point out how poor the current management is at USAC to whomever is signing their checks, nothing will? Let alone the problems with other divisions that are gone over and over again on the message board. The way this Series has been handled is nothing less than a joke!

It was sitting on the cusp of turning this series into a strong deal, and possibly being a leader (remember when USAC used to be a leader) in a growth/feeder series to it's other divisions (you know, like the old Focus series was supposed to do). A possible leader in the upcoming wave of more affordable Midget racing. But now, (again, if this is true) they're going to use (and don't get me wrong chain guys, you will be "used" if you participate in this) chain drive cars to try and bolster something that they killed with their complete lack of vision.

Hope the folks at Honda are enjoying all these benefits from that big check they wrote.... While I sit here kissing goodbye my future career at 16th & Main, I have to ask, do people ever wonder what ever happened to all the sponsors (not just series sponsors, but all those contingency sponsors as well) USAC used to have?

Rant over. My therapist thanks you.

[DAD]

Crankin

WOW!!!!

That Maple leaf doesn't mean that you are the guy that coined the term "Lightning Sprint" does it?

I like your style Kido> I am glad the grand kids can't get on to my computer. That was truly a memorable vent, I fear filled with much truth.

Let's face it the Focus and now the Honda has always been regarded by USAC as a "Cash Cow". They are more concerned with the bottom line than racing in general. I would guess that is really their job, money and profit being the primary method to measure success in a business. What do you know about the USAC Dodge Neon Powered SpeedSTR cars on the east coast?

I love my chain drive motorcycle powered Midget race car aka Mini Sprint. BUT I see change on the horizon. That chain drive is a double edged sword. Very Very efficient, fairly inexpensive But very difficult to maintain and work on.

We had a chance to race this last weekend with the Echotecs and Honda powered cars. We are very competitive with them on a smaller track. On The larger tracks my opinion is still open. For the most part they looked very stock and inexpensive.

Some of the guys in Illinois are doing a great job of formulating rules to allow all stock block Midget race cars to race together. They are the experimenters and ground breakers. They are making rules to allow a conglomeration of cars to race and all be competitive.

Motorcycle engines are getting harder and harder to find, quality low mileage motors are even harder to find. On top of all that we now have to share them with many classes of cars based on the same engine.

Junk Yards are also full of low mileage small high performance automotive engines. They wreck them much more than they blow them up, these motors are tough. That make them inexpensive because the junk yards are looking for a sale. One of these motors can be purchased from a couple of hundred dollars up to about a thousand dollars or so. They do require a one time purchase of parts to convert them over to race motors. After the initial investment these parts can be used over and over.

If I was racing a cycle powered car and my motor died rather than a large cash out lay for a newer cycle motor I will be switching to the automotive type set up, and I bet after some thought you will see a large number of cycle motor powered racers migration in this direction. When we started racing Mini Sprints the hot automotive motor was the Pinto and you see what happened to it. It like the little Honda we raced in our Mini Sprint are now considered antiques. Keep these new motors stock only and make no exceptions. Allow for change as the new power plants come on line. How about direct injection forced induction, that is what we have to look forward to. We now have a 5 year window of obsolesce instead of the 50 year window now used by open wheel racers.

If only the big guys could look at racing through the racers eyes instead of their accountants eyes they could come up with an inexpensive Midget class.

Honest Dad himself