[65 Push Truck]

I enjoy reading up on the changes of drivers and teams, like the hot stove league in baseball used to be in the old days. I'm not sure the whole money and cost of operation thing is the problem with non wing racing. There seems to be plenty of sponsors to run multiple midget teams and drivers for the Chili bowl. All those teams for a $10k payoff and $800 for last. No money to be made there for building all the cars, expense of travel, paying drivers (if they do) etc. Why weren't there 300 cars for the Rock N Roll shootout at the Badlands, it paid $50k???

I don't have the answer for where and why sponsors spend more of their money on wing and midget racing now. Maybe more sponsor logo room on a wing, but much less on a midget, so maybe not. The cost of operation, not even close. A wing team will cost double or probably triple the cost of a good USAC team. Much more travel for a IN driver and wing team, fewer wing races in IN. No way you get more than one night on a right rear wing tire. Brent Beauchamp said he won features on old tires, as well as Kyle Cummins has. Wing cars cannot not have adjustable shocks like a non wing, so multiple shocks needed. The price of the wings. Kyle Cummins had 50 shows on his motor in the 3R car last year and won his last show of the year. I think most wing engine builders say 15 nights then a $7500 refresh if nothing broken or worn above normal rings, bearings, and lifters etc. if it doesn't grenade on its own.

It seems to me that our economy is pretty good right now for individuals and company's to have the extra $$ to put into racing. Where they chose to put that money is the part that is sometimes hard to understand. If it was quality of product I think hands down non wing racing is better than the wing cars event, though I like both. So maybe not that. Maybe national media attention, used to see USAC on Wide World of Sports and ESPN with regularity. You can watch Late Model and Wing shows just about everyday on satellite TV, and major networks every so often. I am thankful for Jackslash on trying to get more non wing races out there for people to see, its great to have MavTV on DirecTV.

I wish I had the answers, but I don't. I don't think it tire rules, the amount of tires, engines, or consumables (oil, fuel, travel) as much as it is that money folks are choosing to spent in other forms right now. 40' stacker trailers, toter homes, and fancy pit vehicles are tons of money and the pits are full of them and they have nothing to do with winning a race. If you look at it in reality that is more than 2/3 the cost of racing a non wing team. Just to get it there in style, and better than the guy beside you....hmmmm I always have pulled for the low budget guys myself. Look at Shark Racing in WOO. Two car team with a piece of trash trailer, old dually, no paint of the frames, minimal graphics, only one spare motor and frame for both guys, and dang they were fast. Loved it. Young guys out having the time of their life.

Sorry for the rant on cost of racing. Back on subject. Kyle Cummins will be back in the Hank Byram, Rock Steady Racing 3R this year. They are sporting a new Mach 1 set to debut down at Bubba Raceway Park.

[Go Fast]

Originally Posted by flagboy55 So,we ***** about drivers having to pay to get an Indy car ride, and now we ***** about sprint car driver's getting paid! Can someone please help me understand this? We want to say our racing is the best on the planet, but you can't make a living doing it? No wonder guys are going to the wings!

Drivers should be paid, not arguing that or ******** about it. But you have to understand that owners cannot run local shows 3 nights a week, putting new tires on every night and pay 40% to a driver for very long. The $ doesn't work. Gotta stick to shows that pay better and limit the number of races. So you are right, drivers can't make a living racing non-wing.

[mike mcghee]

Toter homes cost less than a dually, and if used properly they do away with hotel rooms and restaurants!! As for a 44' stacker trailer, it allows you to securely carry the cars and parts you need to travel long distances. The fancy pitcart carries the spare parts and tools you need to the work area which alot of times is in the infield. If your running for a national championship every point matters which means being able to make necessary repairs to get back on the track,especially if you have a small team. #worksmarternotharder

[65 Push Truck]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester I don't think what Ooley said is wrong and he would know about anything to do with this sport. Motors barring catastrophic damage are refresh-able multiple times, Those like Chassis are a investment, Granted they will never pay for themselves, But a couple USAC or bigger show wins could pay the refreshes. Tires, You could go through 1500 a night in tires easy on some tracks, Even cut that in half and put it on a 45 race season, 34k. Allowing teams to choose their own brand, hardness etc would and can help to reduce that significantly both in initial tire cost and being able to reuse most of them. sometimes several times. This has changed significantly. I remember Sprint Racing where guys would get half a season on a tire. As for driver being a factor in cost. Well they take half the returns, Even if the owner paid for the whole team to get in etc. Of course they should be paid, It's their life on the line. But its a huge factor in the cost of racing. Your driver also has a ton to do with the cars running cost. Does he junk a chassis every couple weeks? Does he burn the tires off down slick straights and also over rev the motor? Granted everyone has a learning curve, some never get it, and some are just plain standouts and wear and replacing stuff is at a minimum while still finishing up front. Not knocking anyone, Just plain facts The $$$ on these cars has become almost unfathomable for a sport where a few guys or a family used to say, Lets put a car together and be able to race it a full season without breaking the bank. The bank can get broken in just a few races anymore.

$1500 a night for tires is a bit extreme IMO. I think Kyle Cummins burned off both rears three or four times last year where they were trash at the end of the night. Twice in FL, the burg early, and Brownstown NWO 40. They usually put on fronts once or twice a year. Tire cost per Smileys? never heard of them but anyway for reference. RR:$265, LR and fronts:$167 for Hoosiers. American Racer like RR $179, LR and fronts $159. So yes AR might be a bit cheaper. $766 Hoosier, $656 AR for 4. The 3R team pays for tires out of their budget...no freebies unless a good natured race fan decided to buy a few. I know Kyle and the 3R team ran around 23 shows last year, and ran used tires in almost all practice session, heats, and B-mains if they had them. Probably 50%-75% of the time they put a new RR on for the feature, and ran used the rest of the time. Usually 2-3 nights on LR's. 4 feature wins, 2 being USAC wins, 13 Top 5's, 3 Top 10's, and 5 Top 15. 4 other. Avg.finish was 8.5 in all races that I could think of. Not bad on a 2015 Mach 1 chassis, and engine that ran 50 shows ( 2 seasons on freshen up), lots of used tires, and CSI AFCO shocks that were a couple years old (serviced of course). It can be done within a budget IMO, not my budget of course...LOL. Look at what KTJ did with Ottinger on limited funds, it was awesome.

Kyle is not a full time driver, he owns his own growing CNC machine shop business. Hank owns a electrical contract business. They both work hard at their business to make it successful and miss racing some shows due to business commitments (like Kyle missing eastern storm last year). They work tons of hours (like everyone it seems) to make the money to do it and have little sponsor money compared to some, I know I work for Kyle on my days off from the FD.

[65 Push Truck]

Originally Posted by mike mcghee Toter homes cost less than a dually, and if used properly they do away with hotel rooms and restaurants!! As for a 44' stacker trailer, it allows you to securely carry the cars and parts you need to travel long distances. The fancy pitcart carries the spare parts and tools you need to the work area which alot of times is in the infield. If your running for a national championship every point matters which means being able to make necessary repairs to get back on the track,especially if you have a small team. #worksmarternotharder

I see your point in the cost savings of a toter home vs. the cost of hotels, meals, and a dually. Not sure I totally agree, but if you buy on a bargain vs. new dually, fancy hotels, and Texas Roadhouse for the team meals I guess. I don't or haven't owned a race team Mike, you have. Good luck with Justin this year, he is a great guy, the best to you all...see ya in FL.

[flagboy55]

I certainly understand the economics of racing. For the most part that's why my sprint car career only lasted parts of 3 or 4 years. "The only way to make a small fortune in racing is to start with a big one" I remember first hearing that phrase over 40 years ago and it pretty much holds true today. I just had to comment with all the criticism over buying rides, and guys leaving non wing to make more money running wings, I find a certain irony someone would mention the cost of paying a driver.

[chastaj]

I am afraid car turnout this year will be an issue. Everyone wants to talk about the big names either switching to wings, ir without a ride, but how many local guts are calling it quits. I am aware of several. Full weekly fields might be a thing of the past???

[Go Fast]

Originally Posted by flagboy55 I certainly understand the economics of racing. For the most part that's why my sprint car career only lasted parts of 3 or 4 years. "The only way to make a small fortune in racing is to start with a big one" I remember first hearing that phrase over 40 years ago and it pretty much holds true today. I just had to comment with all the criticism over buying rides, and guys leaving non wing to make more money running wings, I find a certain irony someone would mention the cost of paying a driver.

Everything is on the table when it comes to racing or closing up shop. I am just telling you that there are several teams that are at this point and may not make it through the season. One crash or engine failure away from another team sellout ad in the classifieds.