[SAC74]

Dad,
Thanks for the info but the point of my post was not whether or not tech COULD be done, but whether it WILL be done. As you said in your post, they COULD very easily pump the national engines - in the division that pays at least $2000 to win, but they don't. How could anyone believe they will measure cam specs or check for aftermarket (or modified) pistons, valves, and crankshafts in their "Red-Headed Stepchild" division that pays $300 to $500 to win? All the people I talked to about building me a D2 engine wanted to know how tech was going to be done. Everyone of them said measuring the lift of the cam was easy, but only tells a very small part of what you need to know. Some of the guys I talked to wanted to know about machining on valves and pistons. They said you can see the tops of the pistons through the spark plug hole, but what about the underside? How will they tell if someone lightens them? What about light weight piston pins and coatings?

[TQ29m]

I could be more attracted to them, if they maintained the traditional midget look, these look like the first round modifieds, in the early 80's, of which I almost bought one, but thank God, they got out of hand too quick for me to get my ck written. From what I've seen, and yes, invested in, these D2 midgets are "overruled", you should be able to tech one with a qt of transmission fluid, and use the scale on the bottle, I've about got a 2.0 built, and minus the injection, I'll have under 3k in it, and it should be in the 260-275hp range, I also have the injection I got off ebay, 2 sets in fact, some gal was selling it for her boyfriend, I guess, I must be a die hard traditionalist, but if it don't walk like a duck, and quack like a duck, it ain't a duck. I love it when folks who know little to nothing about racing, and engines, get together, and write a rule book, that has wheels on it, "stock" classes suck, I don't care if it's rubber band powered, there will be more money spent, "squeezing" the last dollars out of your billfold, than HP out of your engine, the only guy I ever knew that made a "stock" class work, was Bob's Kart Shop, in Il, he maintained all the engines himself, you went to his race facility, paid your money, you drew a brass chit out of the box, he took it back in the parts area, found the 5hp Briggs with that number on it, carried it up to the counter, and you put it on your kart, and raced it, returned it at the end of the evening, he, during the week, cleaned and ck'd it, changed the oil, emptied the fuel tank, changed the tag on it, and put it on the shelf, ready for the next race, he had a good thing going, no way was anyone but him, doing anything to the engines, he pulled the side cover, removed the governor, and that was it. Sorry for the rant, but this could be a good thing, if kept the rule book KISS! Bob

[DAD]

Originally Posted by SAC74 Dad, Thanks for the info but the point of my post was not whether or not tech COULD be done, but whether it WILL be done. As you said in your post, they COULD very easily pump the national engines - in the division that pays at least $2000 to win, but they don't. How could anyone believe they will measure cam specs or check for aftermarket (or modified) pistons, valves, and crankshafts in their "Red-Headed Stepchild" division that pays $300 to $500 to win? All the people I talked to about building me a D2 engine wanted to know how tech was going to be done. Everyone of them said measuring the lift of the cam was easy, but only tells a very small part of what you need to know. Some of the guys I talked to wanted to know about machining on valves and pistons. They said you can see the tops of the pistons through the spark plug hole, but what about the underside? How will they tell if someone lightens them? What about light weight piston pins and coatings?

Sac

A lot of racers tend to get a bit anal when it comes to rules. Back 50 yeqrs ago in my early Go Kart days we used to fill the underside of the piston with cork and then varnish it. That was called stuffing the crankcase and worked in 2 cycle motors (at least we thought it did) There is no power to be had in a 4 cycle engine with the machine work on the bottom of the piston. I have seen a few motors pumped in Midgets and Sprints but not many in my lifetime.

Racers new to the sport tend to put too much significance in the engine. It is that thing that they feel is the real reason for a particular team being faster when in fact it is very seldom because of the engine. The National Midgets are blessed or cursed with a new engine that is indeed more powerful than the rest and because of that Owners are looking in other directions. The truth be known these so called overpowered cars are also set up by the best in the business. They also attract the best driving talent out there. So if the truth were known and these wonder engines were to disappear tonight it would be the same teams winning and the same teams wining.

So back to inspections the entry level race groups need some sort of inspection system to keep the newer race teams convinced that things are on the up and up. The Big Boys don't put as much stock in oversize engines and that is all you could do in both Midgets and 410 Sprints So the fewer inspections you see.

Honest Dad himself

[LJC77]

Damn it Bob, showing your age there with good ol Bob's kart shop.
My first engine came from him which I ran on a BKS kart.
Thanks for that trip down memory lane, now I feel old!

[Backitin]

The reason I love speedway motorcycles is because it's the simplest purest motorsport of all.
Rule book says 500cc. That's about it.
Nobody cares if someone has a big engine because barely anyone alive can even ride a 500 to its potential on a small track.
When you crash you pick the bike up kick it as straight as possible and try again.
I just wish it would stop snowing so I could work on the car, when its snowing and I'm working on it I'm getting snowed on, same with rain.
It seems the more we talk about D-2 midgets the more confusing it gets. I for one feel less intelligent than when I woke up this morning. lol

[TQ29m]

Originally Posted by LJC77 Damn it Bob, showing your age there with good ol Bob's kart shop. My first engine came from him which I ran on a BKS kart. Thanks for that trip down memory lane, now I feel old!

Bob and I became good friends over the years, as far as I could tell, a very Christian man, not a joint out of place anywhere, built quite a facility in Illinois, large family, and all of them worked at the family business, even built a tunnel under the track, so people could go and come without everything coming to a stop, quite a risk taker, but that's what was needed, if there was a way to make a buck, he was doing it, and working at Cat all the time, I sold a lot of his karts, racers and fun karts, always treated me right. Yes, I do tell my age, every time I open my mouth! Bob

[SAC74]

Originally Posted by DAD Sac A lot of racers tend to get a bit anal when it comes to rules. So back to inspections the entry level race groups need some sort of inspection system to keep the newer race teams convinced that things are on the up and up. Honest Dad himself

Dad, if what you are saying is true, light weight pistons and pins, different cam profiles, tricked up valves, etc. don't make a difference, why write rules against them? If the cylinder head is the only thing making power, why don't they go with a rule against porting the head and leave it at that? If they aren't going to enforce all of the rules, all of the time, what is the sense of writing a bunch of rules? If one guy wins, and I know his car has modified valves or modified pistons, how can I be certain he will be caught? Can I file a protest? If I do file a protest, will they be willing and able to properly check his engine? If he is caught will he be disqualified? Why would anyone build a legal car and go to the track knowing people will cheat and not be punished? If one guy runs illegal engine parts and gets away with it, can the next guy run illegal tires? This whole deal sounds like you can run anything you want as long as it isn't too obvious.

[Shreffler21]

🤔

[Avon Open Wheel fan]

Originally Posted by Backitin The way I look at it that's kinda the point of the series that Mr. Tinder is having, not going crazy on engine rules. Show up with what you got and have some fun. Its a little like the run what you brung from back in the day. I understand worrying about engine rules, but I don't believe TECH is the main point in a series like Tinders. I believe the point here is to get some cars out of garages and onto the track. Then if the series takes off maybe you can have two classes within the D-2 moniker, class A and Class B. Win two class B mains and move up to class A or whatever. My point is (and I'm talking about Mr. Tinders series not midgets in general) who cares, if anybody really wanted to race they'd have a car and take it from there.

Thank you for the kind words. It is my intent to keep it simple. There is no way I can stop someone from spending money but if someone wants to buy that $500 dollar engine at the junk yard I want to make them feel just as welcome and feel like they have the same chance to win the race as the guy who spends the big dollars. The bottom line we might not pay huge purses but I intend on publishing the purse prior to each race. I have already worked with many drivers and the bottom line if you have a question about racing with us just ask and I will do my best to make it work. No membership fees just come and pay a $10 pill draw fee and you become a part of our series.

Be sure to check us out next Saturday the 16th at our very first race being held at US 24 Speedway in Logansport, IN

[LJC77]

Mr. Tinder,
I have one question about your series.
With no membership fee, or association with a club, what can the driver expect as far as insurance, ie: ambulance ride, hospital stay?
Not that any driver thinks about this, but we know it happens.