[Roy Bleckert]

Originally Posted by DAD Roy Thanks for the BCRA engine rules. Looking at them I see a set of 50 or 60 year old rules that have been added to as time went along. They are identifying motors long since out of production. That does not make much sense to me. Why is it necessary to handicap engine designs. Racers are pretty smart people sometimes given the opportunity to use their God Given Brain. Why would anyone even try to compete a Falcon Motor with an Esslinger Pinto. Ain't going to happen. Honest Dad himself

Maybe I am not translating this right , BCRA engine rule is close to the USAC rule with a workable situation for the stock block 4v EFI to compete with the national/regional or any other current Midget running , I agree with a lot of what your saying , getting to a BCRA rule package across the Nation is hard enough , without introducing turbos or other goodies, which will be easier to do , if sanctions/tracks would start with the BCRA rule

[DAD]

4.) Any OEM engine installed in a vehicle on a production line with original type cylinder head/block/crankshaft assembly mated at time of production, with electronic ignition and electronic fuel injection allowed. No after-market crankshafts. Maximum displacement:

a. DOHC 4 valves/cyl - 153 cid (approx. 2.5 liter)
b. SOHC 2 valves/cyl - 183 cid (approx. 3.0 liter)
c. OHV 2 valves/cyl - 200 cid (approx. 3.25 liter)
d. OHV 3 valves/cyl - 163 cid (approx. 2.67liter)

5.) Complete engines and/or major components must be available in a reasonably sufficient supply to all competitors at comparative prices.
6.) Except where specifically indicated, engines must be normally aspirated, internal combustion, four-cycle, reciprocating piston type, incorporating a maximum of 6 cylinders. Only one spark plug per cylinder will be allowed.
7.) The preceding engine sizes are the maximum permitted. No clean up will be allowed.
8.) BCRA reserves the right to disallow any engine for competition, which in its judgment does not meet the spirit and intent of competitive racing in regards to cost and/or performance. Any engines not covered by the preceding specifications must be submitted for approval prior to entering a competition.
9.) Electronic fuel injection (EFI) is only allowed on OEM stock block engines and, for the sealed Esslinger EST engine.[/QUOTE]


This part is pretty good Roy. I don't believe anyone makes a 90 degree V6 anymore however most being 60 degrees. That preceding section is like your appendix (Not Needed) way out of date. However it is Much better than 2438.7 cc's. Who the heck made a 3 valve motor?

Honest Dad himself

[Sling'n DIRT]

Originally Posted by Jonr I understand that owning a national series midget is not in the budget for most average Joe's. However, I am not driving to Belleville Midget Nationals to watch an average Joe. I am watching the Kunz drivers, Jerry Coons, BC and the rest of the USAC regulars.

NOTHING will ever replace NATIONAL POWRi/USAC midgets

[Roy Bleckert]

@ Dad , ya BCRA rule 1f/2 covers most current Midgets , rule 4 needs to be added To USAC/POWRI et al & let it rip & who cares if they list those other combo's , if some one wants to roll out a falcon 6 , who am I to say you can not LOLLINN!!!!!

[DaGuy]

As I read this discussion and contemplate getting into midgets it seems to me that this is coincidental to a new Facebook organization called 2.4L Midget Racing that a lot of people have recently followed. But reading between the lines and a little research of my own it seems like SET Racing and Robbie Ray have an agenda to get people on board with part / head swapping within motors. I didn't find but only 1 series that even allows this to happen in a D2 type format (Badger). Am I wrong to think that someone building Honda Motors with Engine"family" parts is trying to sway the public opinion to fulfil their own agenda? Why is it that all of the D2 series that I can find (IMRA, IRS, Poweri D2) don't allow head swapping, etc. But there is this long discussion for motors that can only run around in 1 series?

[Roy Bleckert]

Originally Posted by DaGuy As I read this discussion and contemplate getting into midgets it seems to me that this is coincidental to a new Facebook organization called 2.4L Midget Racing that a lot of people have recently followed. But reading between the lines and a little research of my own it seems like SET Racing and Robbie Ray have an agenda to get people on board with part / head swapping within motors. I didn't find but only 1 series that even allows this to happen in a D2 type format (Badger). Am I wrong to think that someone building Honda Motors with Engine"family" parts is trying to sway the public opinion to fulfil their own agenda? Why is it that all of the D2 series that I can find (IMRA, IRS, Poweri D2) don't allow head swapping, etc. But there is this long discussion for motors that can only run around in 1 series?

This is what I see as a big concern , every sanction/track having a different rules or interpretation of the rules or classes of Midgets , one set of Midget rules across the country & let the best Drivers & Teams decide on the Track who is the Best & Baddest !

[Ray3]

Originally Posted by DaGuy As I read this discussion and contemplate getting into midgets it seems to me that this is coincidental to a new Facebook organization called 2.4L Midget Racing that a lot of people have recently followed. But reading between the lines and a little research of my own it seems like SET Racing and Robbie Ray have an agenda to get people on board with part / head swapping within motors. I didn't find but only 1 series that even allows this to happen in a D2 type format (Badger). Am I wrong to think that someone building Honda Motors with Engine"family" parts is trying to sway the public opinion to fulfil their own agenda? Why is it that all of the D2 series that I can find (IMRA, IRS, Poweri D2) don't allow head swapping, etc. But there is this long discussion for motors that can only run around in 1 series?

There is no hidden agenda. Only a sensible approach to a new engine format called 2.4L Midget Engines. D2 has not been mentioned by me in this thread a single time. The Badger Midget Auto Racing Association is not referred to as a D2 series nor is the Illini Racing Series which has referred to themselves as Sportsman Midgets for many years.

Since you did bring up the "D2 Midget" name however, even Wayne Davis who launched the D2 name with POWRI, and gave an interview on "D2 Midgets" with National Speed Sport News has endorsed the idea of swapping parts in a post on IOW. (See attachment where he states, "313 a. 2. All production passenger car engines must use an original manufacturer’s OEM engine block, OEM cylinder head and OEM crankshaft. Engine blocks, cylinder heads and crankshafts must be from the same manufacturer and the same engine family....
....This is very good compared to way rules for this kind of car are written now pertaining to the stock block rules of different divisions," Wayne Davis.

Now, if someone were to provide free engines to a series owner in order to dictate rules, then I could see that as an ulterior motive with a true hidden agenda. Unfortunately, this has occurred in motorsports and I find it disturbing and very self serving.

I also find it very disturbing that someone would come here to make accusations of people in the open like this when they are not warranted especially when the individual making them is "contemplating getting into midgets" having no previous dealings with myself. I think it would be a proper gesture and a show of respect, for you to give me a courtesy message or call before attacking me with false accusations.

I think the posts by USSA (representing Don Kenyon's series) and racer5c (Roy Caruthers who comes from one of the most renowned families in all of motorsports) would speak for where things stand in this thread. I think I will leave it at that and move on. Thank you again to all those who have shown your support of the 2.4L Midget Racing Facebook page. Please feel free to message me on Facebook for my number if you would like to speak more about the 2.4L Midget Engine concept.

[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by Ray3 Since you did bring up the "D2 Midget" name however, even Wayne Davis who launched the D2 name with POWRI, and gave an interview on "D2 Midgets" with National Speed Sport News has endorsed the idea of swapping parts in a post on IOW. ....This is very good compared to way rules for this kind of car are written now pertaining to the stock block rules of different divisions," Wayne Davis.

I don't know that I would call that an endorsement per say. I do personally like the idea but at the same token it does stray away from what D-2 is about and the way the current D-2 rules are, which can be found at http://www.ssmidgets.com/rules.html. That is all I will say on this thread...Everyone will have to wait until later in the fall when ALL D-2 series/owners have a meeting to see if anything will change at all for 2016..... D-2 has become bigger then just "1" person!!

[DAD]

People can talk about the merits of one engine over another in Midget racing until the end of time. Most people who take an interest will unfortunately have an agenda. Money talks Bull walks. USAC had a great idea with the Focus Midget it got us all thinking. They had another great idea with the introduction of the Honda engine. The problem with both ideas was the profit Agenda lurking in the back of their presentation. USAC and the MMSA co hosted a race at Plymouth Indiana this last week. The lowly Mini Sprint Vs the Mighty Honda's and Focus Midgets of USAC. Well a darned Mini Sprint won the thing. The point being Mini Sprints were founded with a specific displacement in mind and did not try to force a specific motor combination on the racer. They are dictated by the rule of competition and survival of the fittest. It seems that when most people try to rescue the Midget Brand the profit motive is always lurking in the back of their minds.

Give racers just a little credit for being able to choose what will be competitive and affordable for them. Don't sell them a cut rate Honda or Ford motor and pretend to save them $1600.00 on the package motor by replacing Ti Valves with Stainless. Don't show them slick Videos about motor building that could not be further from the truth of how it is really done. IF I was the owner of that high priced motor at Plymouth I would not take kindly to being beat by a motor more than twice as small and costing about $2500.00. When a Face Book page does not allow comment beware it is probably an advertising slick designed to reinforce an agenda.

Race engine design should be dictated by which engine is "COMPETITIVE" at the Moment. Don't worry about cross flow heads or cast iron vs aluminum. Give the racer credit enough for knowing what to race. It is all about "COMPETITION" people. That word has made America "GREAT" in the past !!!! Why would one handicap a motor or hold a good student back just to accommodate a slower "STUDENT" or "MOTOR". If you allow this to be done you are part of the problem and sure not part of the solution. Remove your heads from that dark stinky location and smell the roses. Who wants to race a "PC RACE CAR". Race the fastest race car you can build or have built for you and don't let these well meaning (I Hope) people lead you around like a bunch of sheep to the house of no return.

Honest Dad himself

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Roy Bleckert @ Dad , ya BCRA rule 1f/2 covers most current Midgets , rule 4 needs to be added To USAC/POWRI et al & let it rip & who cares if they list those other combo's , if some one wants to roll out a falcon 6 , who am I to say you can not LOLLINN!!!!!

Roy

The problem with the BCRA stock block rule does not address properly the V6 motor. I know of one motor and that is the Ford Duratec 2500cc that could be competitive with the addition of the bucket follower type head. Most newer V6 motors range between 3000 to 4000cc's or so. Our pool of motors becomes very limited. A V6 could probably be made competitive by de-stroking a larger motor to 3000cc's or so but one can only go so far building an over square motor.

I guess what I am trying to say is the displacement limits set forth in their rules do not allign with the size of the motors that are in production. Why do they need so many diffferent classifications>>>set the Max displacement and let the racers decide what motor they want to race. Heck somebody might show up with a cycle motor powered car and dominate everybody. Next year everybody would have cycle motors.

Honest Dad himself