[Wayne Davis]

The GDN race is a race for all Division II type midgets with less HP engines @ 2/3rds cost (stock block/head/crankshaft) and Lightning/Mini sprints that can come together and race competitively. Rules have been established with a concentrated effort on parity. I did after a very long consideration to allow 5-6 166ci "OLDER" push rod motors in older cars from the east coast to come down and race with restrictions. Now out of the blue with only 41 days out some are ******** about it....Everyone had that opportunity to discuss this with me in Nov. when it was announced Nov. 2 for consideration and I said I would make my decision by Dec. 1. A few did as I made calls and did my research....That decision was made and put out there Dec. 1.....Everyone's opportunity has come and gone on this matter...The rules have been said...the rules have been written...The rules will be abide by....so it be written so it be said....

Wayne Davis owner of the Southern States Division II Midget Series....(904) 803-3255 for any answers of questions you might have..

[darnall]

Wayne...I don't think you need to worry about the older 166 motors. When we had the Ozark Mountain Midget Series going we had such a wide range of engines racing with us that I couldn't even begin to list them all...including a few older Geartes and Fontanas, and plenty of times a 1000cc car was sitting in victory lane at the end of the night. I am pretty sure your harder RR rule and weight rule will be more than sufficient to balance the field out... and the fact that you already stated you may implement a tire pressure rule if there is a clear advantage should give everybody the confidence to come on down.

Keep doing what you're doing...you are on a great path.

[Ray3]

Scale your car before you leave for the race track....problem solved.

The 1100lb weight limit is right on for a midget and IMO should be recognized by every midget series in the United States. The 1050lb weight limit caters to the 5'4" 90-120lb drivers. The average weight for a male in the United States according to the CDC is 195.5lbs (180.85 average for male and females combined). So how many race ready midgets are out there that weigh 854.5lbs(869.15 using the average of men and woman)??? The USAC and POWRI weight rule used to be 900lbs without the driver. If you take the average weight of a male in the United States add 900lbs you get 1095.50 (1080.85 for average of men and woman). Now add the weight of your safety equipment and you are far above 1100lbs. So 1100lbs seems logical to me but why not USAC, POWRI and apparently the Tulsa Shootout? Let the smaller drivers add weight.

[red70racer]

Ray3
Scale your car before you leave for the race track....problem solved
Unless your sanctioning body changes the rules after you tow 400 miles and paid your entry!

[Ray3]

My point is there was no reason to change the rule at Tulsa. They should have required the illegal cars to make weight or go home. Rules are rules and they were well published ahead of time.

[c47]

when we ran sr champ kart, we had to bolt on roughly 120lb. i started by using 2 plastic fuel tanks mounted on the floor pan and filled with water. the rest went on with the kart and driver on the scales so we could get the percentages the same. when we had the kart built i asked for 4 flat plates to be welded on the frame so weight could be added. the whole procedure was a pain in the ass but the weight was where we wanted it and installed safely. the rules said the weight had to be bolted on with either double nuts or cotter pins. i used nyloc nuts and safety pin type cotters. as far as the weight being painted white....the main reason is that if it falls off, it can be easily spotted on the track. the tracks we raced at took it a step further and made you paint your kart number on it. if they found it on the track, you were DQed from that race and had to get teched before you went out again. ps.....sheet led was legal but it had to be bolted in the seat.

[darnall]

Originally Posted by Ray3 Scale your car before you leave for the race track....problem solved. The 1100lb weight limit is right on for a midget and IMO should be recognized by every midget series in the United States. The 1050lb weight limit caters to the 5'4" 90-120lb drivers. The average weight for a male in the United States according to the CDC is 195.5lbs (180.85 average for male and females combined). So how many race ready midgets are out there that weigh 854.5lbs(869.15 using the average of men and woman)??? The USAC and POWRI weight rule used to be 900lbs without the driver. If you take the average weight of a male in the United States add 900lbs you get 1095.50 (1080.85 for average of men and woman). Now add the weight of your safety equipment and you are far above 1100lbs. So 1100lbs seems logical to me but why not USAC, POWRI and apparently the Tulsa Shootout? Let the smaller drivers add weight.

Darn right man.

Taking it a step farther.... lets assume that 1050 is an acceptable number for a national midget weight rule (being a guy that weighs 220 I don't think it is, but thats another topic).

If I have a midget with the newest esslinger, a carbon fiber hood and panels, all the titanium options in the driveline, the super lightweight hoses and fittings, titanium bolts everywhere, etc etc and I am racing against 20 other cars with all the same high dollar stuff maybe 1050 is an acceptable number....

Now lets replace that esslinger with an OEM production chevy cobalt engine. That engine alone has to weigh AT LEAST 30-40 pounds or more than my flyweight esslinger (an ecotec is a huge engine...it looks like a monster compared to most inline 4 banger midget engines)... how in the heck do I still roll that car across the scales at 1050? That boggles my mind .

Going one step farther. Lets say 90 percent of the people that want to race a midget can't justify a $40,000 engine that needs a few $5-8,000 rebuilds per year. A D2-Sportsman class looks like a great alternative.I don't want a class with an anemic spec motor with half the power of an old fontana, especially when a bunch of the guys in that class have all the lightweight stuff on their cars. I can't go buy a new Spike roller loaded with titanium so this D2 deal is looking better and better. Hundreds of options for powerplants that still kick you in the pants pretty good. Plenty of used rollers out there anywhere from 2 grand to 15 grand in cost. A 2000 Stealth chassis is easy to find, and most hardware stores have just about any fastener I would want to replace on the car for no more that 2 bucks each.

I buy a roller. I go to the salvage yard and pick up a low mileage ecotec for under a grand. I can have it in a midget for another 500 bucks and some elbow grease, or I can spend 5-8 grand to make it work in a midget if I want to.

I get the car running. It seems to run great. I roll across scales 15 pounds heavier than the posted weight rule and life is GOOD. Until 6 cars show up tricked to the hilt and the promoter/tech guy decides to make my car 100 pounds to heavy with a last second rule change.

Guess what....most guys in that situation suddenly have a change of heart. That car they were so happy with gets posted on every classified site in the country the neext Monday...with a tag at the bottom that says "Sell for $4500, OBO, or TRADE FOR A MODIFIED OR SPRINTCAR ROLLER.

We lose people that easily. And now we have a serious grass roots movement for people to actually be able to race midgets. Not USAC caliber midgets, but midgets that are every bit as fast as midgets were not too many years ago. If some guy actually builds a car that can't safely get up to 1100-1150 pounds, he has no business being in this class...at least not with that car. He is more than welcome to put a car together with grade 8 bolts and standard hoses and body panels and come race. Or put a heavy steel floorpan and motorplate in it and bring it...or bolt some lead to it. But to cut a weight rule 75 pounds...to the same weight as all these top notch USAC cars run at, just to allow that guy to race....ridiculous.

[badcoupe]

When we raced karts my brother was rather small we added sheets of lead to the seat and glassed them in. That got to light class weight then we bolted on the rest for med and heavy if needed

[BTxpress]

My son races Focus Midgets out here in Washington & our weight rule is 1140 lbs. My son is 146 lbs maybe 155 with all his safety gear on. We run a Beast 5 bar that I bought used. It had Ti bolts throughout, light weight 19 gal tail tank, 36 Spline etc. I replaced all panels with .080, removed the Ti bolts & put grade 8 bolts throughout. Built a 5/16" steel floor pan & triangular plate for battery box to bolt to, 13# lead across the back of floor pan, two 5# lead chunks bolted under seat & 13# of lead hose clamped (3 clamps)to the vertical tube ahead of left side rear axle & 3 gal of fuel to cross the scale at 1145 after the main. I only know of 1 other car that bolts lead on & they also run a thick steel floor pan that races with us. All the other drivers are heavier & to my knowledge don't add any lead. 36#'s of lead & I don't recall the weight of the steel pan & battery mount bolted on my car. We are as competitive as any car here with many fast times, heat wins, lots of 2nds & 1 main win in 2014. By the way, we're the only bar car racing in our group which should make as a tad heavier than coil fronts. Would I like to see a lower weight? you bet I would but there are more heavier drivers than my 1 light weight driver...

[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by BTxpress Would I like to see a lower weight? you bet I would but there are more heavier drivers than my 1 light weight driver...

That is a fact right there....it is way cheaper to add weight...Lead on the scrap market is at $.54 per pound so if you need to add 30 pds. it'll only cost ya $16.20 plus bolts so I would say less the $30.00....

but now less try to lose 30 pds: Ti bolts $980.00 for 7 pds...Carbon body $1500.00 for 17 pds...Ti driveline extra $300.00 for 4 pds....$2800.00 for 28 pds....$100.00 per pound...yep that is about right

We NEED the Division II Midgets to help save MIDGET racing as a whole!!!!