[leftrear]

Well as a long time attendee at angell park we both know there is no cushion there to speak about. It appears to me to be semi dry slick and a total momentum type race with no obvious acceleration off the corners.
That being said , I do applaud Badgers efforts to keep midget racing alive at APS. The thing I don't get is why all the 20 lap features ? Is it to save on wear and tear or why exactly ?

[Ray3]

Originally Posted by Wayne Davis 2. All engines must use an original manufacturer’s OEM engine block, OEM cylinder head and OEM crankshaft. Engine blocks, cylinder heads and crankshafts must be from the same OEM manufacturer. Does this mean it has to match block to head to crank as it came from manufacture 2.4/2.4/2.4 or as long as it is OEM GM...OEM Ford ect.... as in a 2.4 block Ecotec with a 2.2 Ecotec head with a 2.0 Ecotec crankshaft...all GM buy 3 different engines? please clarify

Wayne, first thank you for asking. I know we haven't always agreed on things and I appreciate your question.

The short answer is no. The block, head and crank do not have to match (my engines do match in case anyone is wondering) but they don't have to. As long as it is OEM Chevy to OEM Chevy it would be legal. On the Chevy Ecotec specifically it actually saves money to use the 2.2 head over the 2.4 head because no mods are necessary, it elminates the VVT and there are more cam options for the 2.2 head. We have found that you DO NOT have to buy three different complete engines to get this. You can buy a head by itself, a block by itself and a crank by itself and still spend the same amount as if you bought a complete engine. Using a 2.0 crank in a Chevy Ecotec would be detrimental because you are likely not able to get to a competitive cubic inch limit using that crank.

If you put a 2.0 Ecotec crank in a 2.4 block you would only have an engine with 127.68 cubic inches for example.

One thing to understand about these OEM engines. They (Ford, Chevy, Honda, Chrysler etc) purposely use many of the same components from engine to engine. That is GREAT for the racers who want to use those components because it means there is more available long term.

[Ray3]

Originally Posted by leftrear Well as a long time attendee at angell park we both know there is no cushion there to speak about. It appears to me to be semi dry slick and a total momentum type race with no obvious acceleration off the corners. That being said , I do applaud Badgers efforts to keep midget racing alive at APS. The thing I don't get is why all the 20 lap features ? Is it to save on wear and tear or why exactly ?

The feature laps are determined by what the promoter will allow. If you are concerned with that contact the promoter.

[Midget98]

Originally Posted by leftrear Well as a long time attendee at angell park we both know there is no cushion there to speak about. It appears to me to be semi dry slick and a total momentum type race with no obvious acceleration off the corners.

This is where I see the issue as well. We all know that if there was a cushion they were running off of, it would look like the engine was stumbling until they got back to speed. I don't know that there is an answer to that without allowing either extra cubic inches or some porting of heads. Maybe those things wouldn't do it either and who knows if the extra expense would make it cost prohibitive. I understand you can't have all the power and torque you want without the expense associated, but the gap is still too noticeable for me and many others to just ignore or accept as the new normal.

[Ray3]

Originally Posted by Midget98 This is where I see the issue as well. We all know that if there was a cushion they were running off of, it would look like the engine was stumbling until they got back to speed. I don't know that there is an answer to that without allowing either extra cubic inches or some porting of heads. Maybe those things wouldn't do it either and who knows if the extra expense would make it cost prohibitive. I understand you can't have all the power and torque you want without the expense associated, but the gap is still too noticeable for me and many others to just ignore or accept as the new normal.

Leftrear, thank you for taking the time to make your first post on IOW. Always great to see fans of the Badger Midgets supporting the series. Midget98, I guess this is where we have to agree to disagree but know that I value your opinion. Please send me a PM with your name and phone number. I would love to chat more about this with you over the phone some time.

For the record for everyone, Scott Hatton set a new 20 lap track record in 2017 at Angell Park Speedway using a Badger Honda. He bested a mark set by a Fontana engine driven by Bill Balog from 2015.

[leftrear]

That's the thing that record was set in 2015 and the reason is they have not run 20 lap features at APS for ages until the new engine program came out. Scott Hatton is also one of the best ever to run APS and probably has more laps there than just about anyone. I was curious if this was just a reliability thing at first but it is still 20 lappers so what is the reason lol ?

[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by Ray3 Wayne, first thank you for asking. I know we haven't always agreed on things and I appreciate your question. The short answer is no. The block, head and crank do not have to match (my engines do match in case anyone is wondering) but they don't have to. As long as it is OEM Chevy to OEM Chevy it would be legal. On the Chevy Ecotec specifically it actually saves money to use the 2.2 head over the 2.4 head because no mods are necessary, it elminates the VVT and there are more cam options for the 2.2 head. We have found that you DO NOT have to buy three different complete engines to get this. You can buy a head by itself, a block by itself and a crank by itself and still spend the same amount as if you bought a complete engine. Using a 2.0 crank in a Chevy Ecotec would be detrimental because you are likely not able to get to a competitive cubic inch limit using that crank. If you put a 2.0 Ecotec crank in a 2.4 block you would only have an engine with 127.68 cubic inches for example. One thing to understand about these OEM engines. They (Ford, Chevy, Honda, Chrysler etc) purposely use many of the same components from engine to engine. That is GREAT for the racers who want to use those components because it means there is more available long term.

Thanks for clarifying ....yes I know that about to 2.0 crankshaft...was just using it as an example...thanks again

[Ray3]

Here is a chart showing the different piston sizes, stroke and cubic inches for the various production engines being used in Badger style Midget competition. I show this because it tells you why you can't just say "stock" for engine size. You can see that the max of 148.82 CID was chosen to make sure the Chevy guys got as much time out of their block as the other engines. It wouldn't be fair to make the Chevy guys buy a new block every season just because they had to run a hone through the cylinders. Also, with these engines it is a lot easier to sleeve one down than it is to make it bigger due to the bore spacing of the engines. Just trying to show more information and help people understand where and why the rules are as they are.

[dirt40]

Originally Posted by leftrear That's the thing that record was set in 2015 and the reason is they have not run 20 lap features at APS for ages until the new engine program came out. Scott Hatton is also one of the best ever to run APS and probably has more laps there than just about anyone. I was curious if this was just a reliability thing at first but it is still 20 lappers so what is the reason lol ?

We have run 25 and 30 lap features at Burlington and Spoon River which are both 3/8 with no issues, so it's not a reliability thing.

[Ray3]

Originally Posted by dirt40 We have run 25 and 30 lap features at Burlington and Spoon River which are both 3/8 with no issues, so it's not a reliability thing.

He is referring to Badger races not D2 races. Not the same thing. Let me reiterate, NOT THE SAME. Even POWRI D2 isn't D2 anymore.