[Cincy Dirt Bowl]

Also for clarification. It was stated by Mark at the Greensburg drivers meeting that the experiment would be run through out the 2010 season and a desicion made on whether to adjust the rules for 2011.

I was told I would be able to run the car all next year. Mark told me I couldn't run at the Burg because of the points battle being so close. Which I can understand. Thanks to Charlie for at least letting me hot lap.

I never would have invested my time or money for an experiment that only would last 1 race and a hot lap session.

[TQ97]

First of all, TQs in the Northeast (which to my knowledge are all pavement) and apparently a few that they have in Florida are run this way. California isn't, never has been, nor has Indiana.

As for your time and money, I wouldn't of either, and knowing the rules before hand, and looking at my car at Shelbyville and seeing how it could be done legally, I don't understand why you did it that way anyways. Your car didn't just become illegal, it was never legal per the MTQRL rulebook. You can still be legal, just cut your tranny off and hook the motor up through the driveline like every other TQ in the MTQRL and come race. I wasn't at Greensburg, and admittedly I was very vocal at Lawrenceburg, because my team took the time to do our R and D through the rulebook. And I wasn't about to let our time and money be wasted without speaking my concerns. Trust me, I would love to be able to shift my motor, but I want a traditonal TQ, not a mini sprint. If all of this makes me a jerk, so be it, it's nothing personal on my end.

[Cincy Dirt Bowl]

First of all I don't think anybody is a jerk. I am not mad at any racer no matter how they feel about my car. I also understand you wanting to protect your investment in R&D. I did talk to you at Shelbyville and looked at your car. You have alot of work and money in your set-up thats for sure. Lots of one-off parts. After Shelbyville I contacted Mark to ask about rules and he hooked me up with the Tech Dir. Jerry Frickman. Jerry and I started talking about how it could be made eaisier and cheaper for the regular joe to get into TQ's. Not the guy who has a machine shop and can make anything work. We came up with the set-up on my car, I got the O.K. and built the car, and now here we are. I can't tell the future. All I can go by is what I was told I could do.

---------- Post added at 10:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 AM ----------

Just for the record my car can not be shifted nor can I use the clutch. The only thing different about my car is the drive shaft is conected to the transmission output shaft, I still have to be pushed started. The drive is set up like a dwarf car or modlite.

[TQ29m]

Originally Posted by slide22 I'm not real familiar with TQ's, but whats the problem with a car having a transmission?

Slide 22, a transmission in a minisprint, is not a problem, because that's the way your rules are written, the rule for a TQ is different, and very simple, a one to one direct connection, between the output end of the crankshaft, and the lower quickchange gear in the rear end. No reduction in ratio, between the end of the crank, and the QC rear end. I have a question for you, would your rules allow a QC rear end, in a mini-sprint? Thanks! Bob

---------- Post added at 10:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Cincy Dirt Bowl First of all I don't think anybody is a jerk. I am not mad at any racer no matter how they feel about my car. I also understand you wanting to protect your investment in R&D. I did talk to you at Shelbyville and looked at your car. You have alot of work and money in your set-up thats for sure. Lots of one-off parts. After Shelbyville I contacted Mark to ask about rules and he hooked me up with the Tech Dir. Jerry Frickman. Jerry and I started talking about how it could be made eaisier and cheaper for the regular joe to get into TQ's. Not the guy who has a machine shop and can make anything work. We came up with the set-up on my car, I got the O.K. and built the car, and now here we are. I can't tell the future. All I can go by is what I was told I could do. ---------- Post added at 10:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 AM ---------- Just for the record my car can not be shifted nor can I use the clutch. The only thing different about my car is the drive shaft is conected to the transmission output shaft, I still have to be pushed started. The drive is set up like a dwarf car or modlite.

Carl, when you called me,and asked about how this hook up is done, and I explained it to you, I also told you it wasn't legal, under our present rules, I PM'd you, on here, and explained that again, and, I also called you, and left you a message, again explaining that under the current rules, it would be illegal, you didn't respond to either, so I assumed you had taken my advice, and chose the conventional method of hooking up your engine, as you already had a "conventional" TQ driveline, in your car. A few guys have gutted the trans case, and used it for the sump, but are hooked up to the end of the crank, just as the rules state. I hope we have closure on this matter. Bob

[Shawn]

First, I would like to apologize for my first post. After reading it, I can see that it sounded a lot more "rough" than I intended, especially towards the series. I was mainly just trying to speak my opinion, but can see that I might have offended some people. This was not my intention, nor do I hope this happened.

I think the organization in reference (MTQRL) is a first-class organization. Also, they've done a lot for TQ racing in their first year and I can't wait to see what they do in the future. If they keep doing what they're doing, the success will come!

Also, I respect "Cincy" for trying to be different and going after the "racing dream". However, it's unfortunate the situation ever came to this. Hopefully he'll slap the "conventional" set-up in there and go racing again.

Finally, back to the post, does anyone have a huge building in Indiana to toss some dirt in and go racing?! :2:

[Jrp4554]

Without just using the phrase "it's against the rules", will someone explain the advantage of leaving the transmission on. All I keep hearing is how its against the rules. No one has offered a valid reason as to why other that's just the way it is. It sounds like he took a stock motor and put it in a tq. What's wrong with that? Stock motors off wrecked bikes can be bought off ebay for less than a grand. Then you're eliminating having to take it to a machine shop and having it specially cut down. Just curious. Not trying to sling mud. (no pun intended)

[slide22]

Originally Posted by TQ29m Slide 22, a transmission in a minisprint, is not a problem, because that's the way your rules are written, the rule for a TQ is different, and very simple, a one to one direct connection, between the output end of the crankshaft, and the lower quickchange gear in the rear end. No reduction in ratio, between the end of the crank, and the QC rear end. I have a question for you, would your rules allow a QC rear end, in a mini-sprint? Thanks! Bob[COLOR="Black"]

No, per AMSA rules it has to be a chain drive. I assume a driveline would be pretty easy to do, other than changing the engine mounts. The modlites around here use a quick change, I'm sure it can be done on a mini sprint with the same engines. Although I do like not having to be push started...

[suade82]

Hey, do we have Dog Food and Glue yet?


Wade Vest

[TQ29m]

Originally Posted by Jrp4554 Without just using the phrase "it's against the rules", will someone explain the advantage of leaving the transmission on. All I keep hearing is how its against the rules. No one has offered a valid reason as to why other that's just the way it is. It sounds like he took a stock motor and put it in a tq. What's wrong with that? Stock motors off wrecked bikes can be bought off ebay for less than a grand. Then you're eliminating having to take it to a machine shop and having it specially cut down. Just curious. Not trying to sling mud. (no pun intended)

Jeremy, isn't that good enough, it is against the rule, something that most of us are required to live by, I explained the rule, as it is written, and that is what we live by. And, as a side note, we run a "traditional TQ Midget", we are allowed clutches, but no gear boxes. The object is to not push the cars out of the pipeline, that adhere to this, and other rules, we know going in, that when we pick another engine, other than a long stroke, SOHC Honda motor, that we are at a disadvantage, because of the rule, we can't multiply the RPM by going thru ANY KIND of gear reducer, except in the rear end. I am running a 600cc Yamaha, the old 600r, and it is very competitive, and very inexpensive, I have less in 4 motors, than a set of rods for a Honda costs, the first engine I put together, and is still in good running condition, had over 80 nights of racing on it, before I pulled it, and put another one in, and these are motors out of bikes, with a minimum of 7,000 miles on them with no new parts put in them, before they go in the car. Like I said, this is what the MAJORITY of the car owners want, so it will probably stay that way for many years into the future. And, nowhere does it say you have to cut off the trans, several of the guys just unload the gears, use that space as a sump, so they don't have to go to a dry sump, hook up to the crankshaft, bolt it to the motorplate, and go racing. How easy could that be? Bob

[Uncle_Charlie]

Originally Posted by Jrp4554 Without just using the phrase "it's against the rules", will someone explain the advantage of leaving the transmission on. All I keep hearing is how its against the rules. No one has offered a valid reason as to why other that's just the way it is. It sounds like he took a stock motor and put it in a tq. What's wrong with that? Stock motors off wrecked bikes can be bought off ebay for less than a grand. Then you're eliminating having to take it to a machine shop and having it specially cut down. Just curious. Not trying to sling mud. (no pun intended)

Here is the deal, a "TQ",in this part of the world, states that the driveline be connected to the CRANKSHAFT, not the output shaft of a transmission.

The word "transmission" covers too many areas that I do not want to get into. That would open up a can of worms that would be impossible to control. What it boils down to is that this kind of move would blur the fine line between a TQ and a minisprint. I see Carl's point of view, however, I can not allow for this change at this time. I bet that the Minisprints would tell him the same thing.

If he wants to keep that engine and make an adapter to run it off the CRANKSHAFT while keeping the transmission intact fine by me. I am sorry that he got bad information from the higher-ups, but Jerry is the Director of Competition, not the Tech inspector. He should have e-mailed either me or Randy. Better yet, he should have just followed the rule book to begin with.

I like Carl. He seems like a nice enough guy, however, I will not make an exception in the rules just for him. If I do that, I have to do it for everyone. If I do that, I just as well take the rulebook and burn it.

Lets put this to rest.

---------- Post added at 03:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 PM ----------

[QUOTE=Cincy Dirt Bowl;143282]<SNIP> After Shelbyville I contacted Mark to ask about rules and he hooked me up with the Tech Dir. Jerry Frickman. Jerry and I started talking about how it could be made eaisier and cheaper for the regular joe to get into TQ's.......[COLOR="Black"]

Carl, I thought we had this taken care of at Lawrenceburg. I am all for keeping cost down. I am also into R&D. I am first and formost into following the rules. I am sorry that Jerry gave you bad input. I knew nothing about your car until you unloaded it. Had I known before hand, I would have told you then not to bother setting it up the way you did. Did you ever think about connecting the driveshaft to the CRANKSHAFT with the case intact? I would have no problem with that. A "transmission" covers too many areas that I can not enforce.

The way you have it set up, it is neither a TQ nor a Minisprint. It is a half-breed of the two. I am not going to allow people to "run what they brought". Where do I draw the line? I am going to draw it at the rule book.

Again, sorry you got bad input. Feel free to e-mail or call me with any questions you have.