[coondog]

I've half read some of the posts and one way or another it's good to see the passion for our sport. However, some of the posts are so far off, I eventually felt the need to chime in. Will probably regret it, but oh well. I am not here to completely defend USAC or Kevin Miller. They have have done some stupid things and I've shared my displeasure with them on those occasions. I am not going to talk exact numbers, as that part is irrevelant.

Whether you want to believe it or not, I believe USAC would of been out of business if it hadn't been for Kevin. In 06 and 07 when I won the National Midget Championship, it paid less than 6K to win, less in 07 than 06. I have been told the numbers that they had in the bank and how it was dwindling. I have seen the presentations that Kevin has gone to major companies with and they don't bite. Another thing you may not want to believe is that the 3 National Series do not bring in very much revenue. Do the math. Sanctioning fees times the number of races. The amount of members for the 3 series. So someone has figured out that they can sanction different series in all forms of motorsports, sell insurance and make money. Pretty smart if you ask me. Just because a series carries thebUSAC banner, does not mean they are taking the series over or have anything to do with the operation of the series.

Now pavement racing. Yes, we can blame USAC or sanctioning bodies for the cost of the sport. But when pavement tracks don't want to schedule your series, what do you want to do? Yes, wing pavement is doing ok for half the purse of a USAC race. I do get the, if USAC would promote, and I don't disagree there a little. Without sponsor dollars, there is no advertising.

Midget racing has been hurting all over. There used to be cars in AZ, CO, WI. They are gone. Going to blame USAC for that? Belleville would pull at least 10 cars from AZ and that many from CO. Plus the west coast cars. I know there were 300 cars at chili bowl. But so many of those are 1 off deals. I went through the pits there, seeing who I could approach for a ride. Couldn't come up with hardly anything but luckily, there was one that came available. One.

At a USAC Silver Crown meeting, Kevin said he would commit X amount of dollars. The owners could choose how to spend it. All of the dirt shows were self supported. However, there was not 1 pavement race that was. It was going to take pretty much all of the money to get a few pavement races. Here was my suggestion. Do away with pavement for about 2 years. Work on adding a couple more dirt shows as there were 6. Take the money Kevin offered and add tow money, great point fund, etc. Build the car count back to 25 or 30 cars at least. Now in a couple years, come out with a pavement rules package that you have to run your dirt car. Yes, it can be done. Now you have a pool of 25 or 30 cars plus to pull from for a pavemet race. The track owners are going to see how strong the series is. Owners don't have to sink a ton to run pavement. I understand there are pavement cars out there that become boat anchors but at some point, you have to stop the bleeding for the future. Of course the few pavement only owners there, shot that down in a heart beat.

Comparing USAC to WoO is not a fair comparison. Like someone posted, you can see any of the USAC drivers at any weekly show. That hurts USAC but we want to race so which comes first?

Ok, pick me apart. I have big shoulders. Well, ok I dont, but you get the point.

[Revolution Racing]

Coondog, everything you said is absolutely impossible. It makes WAAAAY too much sense.

[Charles Nungester]

Like I said, I wasn't bad mouthing USAC or anyone.

To me, The format is awesome. Qualify and invert the top six with only four transferring. I kinda wish that a non heat transfer that transferred through the consi could not start better than 13th (Behind heat transfers)

I also said, That that is great when you got 28+ cars and four heats But then they have fields of 21-23 and run three heats, and still run a consi?

I know some of the tracks and trips are hard for many teams to support, But why does over 2/3rds of a local tracks regulars not run with em? Sure some are not experienced and some might not have great equipment but I've seen many locals may not be able to put great qualifying laps down, But sure as hell can race with anyone and move forward against better equiptment, Sometimes far superior equipment than they have.

So thats my question, People saying they want higher payout, then won't run the series that does? Why?

Anyhow, Back on topic. It probably is true USAC was in trouble financially, They got Hillenburg and now Hamilton Both very experienced people in lots of categories of racing. I wish them well. I hope it's a huge success!

To put it plainly though, USAC has had great people before and got thrown under the bus of something that wasn't their fault at all, I know the 50th anniversary book thing was a huge hit and I think the Gold Crown was the other tha put them in the Red. But it wasn't the fault of those running things at the time. In fact some of the races today, Such as Eastern Storm were totally due to their hard work.

I really like the idea of the pavement/dirt car for all three series. Put a hard tire on em that would last testing/feature and go race. The only concern I have with is the safety and the containment seats have pretty much eliminated the need for the wide body and/or side bars.

Carry on. Its just my view, Yours may be different. No need to get personal.

[cleatziff]

I have a couple questions about these posts. It not to start a debate just to clarify a few points of view.

I have heard anyone racing a USAC race has to pay a fee for USAC license is this true?

Does WOO require a license fee for all drivers?

Would USAC have drivers you could only see at USAC shows if they had a purse and schedule similar to WOO?

Also is the cost of racing hurting the car counts. My dad as often talked about when he raced and you could get parts at a junk yard.
People have often talked about the car counts of Long ago vs. The cost of now. Some of the stories I have heard from some old timers would never work now.
My uncle once told me about using a log to hold the belt tight after my dad broke the power steering pump on his stock car and finishing third in the feature. They also used a pair of vice grips to hold on larry cutis's fuel pump and won the feature. This could not happen now....Sorry if I am rambling

[coondog]

I wonder the same about why teams stay away when USAC shows up. 50 some cars showed up at Eldora for a race that paid how much? I can start a USAC sprint car feature and make more than 3rd at most local shows. The issue with USAC traveling is, there isn't non wing racing anywhere else for the most part. I am going to run the Eastern Storm for Mike Heffner. He said he has always wanted to run it but his drivers don't want to run without a wing.

Guys used to want to race with the best. Now they want to go where USAC isn't for much less money. The way I got better was going to get my but kicked at a west coast USAC midget race. Then I came back to AZ and won.

[cleatziff]

Is there much wingless sprint car racing outside of Indiana, southern California, and Arizona? The only other states I've heard mentioned are sometimes Oklahoma and northern Texas, Illinois and Ohio. Are those healthy markets

[Charles Nungester]

Many of them old stories are true. Might have 600-1000 in the whole car up till the mid 70s and take home a percentage purse of 12 grand. Blow a motor and go to the junkyard, find what you need and race the next night. Today a lot of teams won't even touch their own motors. I even heard of cars that made a couple hundred grand in the life of the car which was much longer than today's 2-3 seasons

I also thought you got better by racing the best I think now you even have to run different front axles to run Non Wing vs Wing, So that probably hurts counts traveling except in areas NW is prevalent.

I do see some light and I don't know what to think about it. Im sure the racing will be the judge but a couple Racesaver NW and Crate NW classes seem to be getting a huge interest, At least from racers. Perhaps some will gain the talent and secure the sponsorship to go National or at least enhance the traveling Series at times.

[BrentTFunk]

Originally Posted by ossuks Again you have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have no clue....I really do not know why I waste my time replying to someone that I rarely see sober... BUT, I made $175 per night of which I paid for all my fuel, motel and food....40% of the time I lost money ....but you have never heard me complain because it was my passion...You tell who ever is giving you this information that Bill Carey said they were a liar!!! OR, someone is so in need of recognition that you make things up to make people think you know something.

Bill we were given a list when the promoter I worked for questioned where the money he paid went. I am just saying what it said. I am sure the salaries, right or wrong are comparable with where the have always been.

[miledirt]

Originally Posted by coondog I've half read some of the posts and one way or another it's good to see the passion for our sport. However, some of the posts are so far off, I eventually felt the need to chime in. Will probably regret it, but oh well. I am not here to completely defend USAC or Kevin Miller. They have have done some stupid things and I've shared my displeasure with them on those occasions. I am not going to talk exact numbers, as that part is irrevelant. Whether you want to believe it or not, I believe USAC would of been out of business if it hadn't been for Kevin. In 06 and 07 when I won the National Midget Championship, it paid less than 6K to win, less in 07 than 06. I have been told the numbers that they had in the bank and how it was dwindling. I have seen the presentations that Kevin has gone to major companies with and they don't bite. Another thing you may not want to believe is that the 3 National Series do not bring in very much revenue. Do the math. Sanctioning fees times the number of races. The amount of members for the 3 series. So someone has figured out that they can sanction different series in all forms of motorsports, sell insurance and make money. Pretty smart if you ask me. Just because a series carries thebUSAC banner, does not mean they are taking the series over or have anything to do with the operation of the series. Now pavement racing. Yes, we can blame USAC or sanctioning bodies for the cost of the sport. But when pavement tracks don't want to schedule your series, what do you want to do? Yes, wing pavement is doing ok for half the purse of a USAC race. I do get the, if USAC would promote, and I don't disagree there a little. Without sponsor dollars, there is no advertising. Midget racing has been hurting all over. There used to be cars in AZ, CO, WI. They are gone. Going to blame USAC for that? Belleville would pull at least 10 cars from AZ and that many from CO. Plus the west coast cars. I know there were 300 cars at chili bowl. But so many of those are 1 off deals. I went through the pits there, seeing who I could approach for a ride. Couldn't come up with hardly anything but luckily, there was one that came available. One. At a USAC Silver Crown meeting, Kevin said he would commit X amount of dollars. The owners could choose how to spend it. All of the dirt shows were self supported. However, there was not 1 pavement race that was. It was going to take pretty much all of the money to get a few pavement races. Here was my suggestion. Do away with pavement for about 2 years. Work on adding a couple more dirt shows as there were 6. Take the money Kevin offered and add tow money, great point fund, etc. Build the car count back to 25 or 30 cars at least. Now in a couple years, come out with a pavement rules package that you have to run your dirt car. Yes, it can be done. Now you have a pool of 25 or 30 cars plus to pull from for a pavemet race. The track owners are going to see how strong the series is. Owners don't have to sink a ton to run pavement. I understand there are pavement cars out there that become boat anchors but at some point, you have to stop the bleeding for the future. Of course the few pavement only owners there, shot that down in a heart beat. Comparing USAC to WoO is not a fair comparison. Like someone posted, you can see any of the USAC drivers at any weekly show. That hurts USAC but we want to race so which comes first? Ok, pick me apart. I have big shoulders. Well, ok I dont, but you get the point.

Loved the paragraph and ideas on the Silver Crown series... wouldn't you say that it's working?

[staggerman]

Originally Posted by cleatziff I have a couple questions about these posts. It not to start a debate just to clarify a few points of view. I have heard anyone racing a USAC race has to pay a fee for USAC license is this true? Does WOO require a license fee for all drivers? Would USAC have drivers you could only see at USAC shows if they had a purse and schedule similar to WOO? Also is the cost of racing hurting the car counts. My dad as often talked about when he raced and you could get parts at a junk yard. People have often talked about the car counts of Long ago vs. The cost of now. Some of the stories I have heard from some old timers would never work now. My uncle once told me about using a log to hold the belt tight after my dad broke the power steering pump on his stock car and finishing third in the feature. They also used a pair of vice grips to hold on larry cutis's fuel pump and won the feature. This could not happen now....Sorry if I am rambling

Yes, any driver that runs a Woo race has to pay a one time $150 membership fee at the first event they run.