[treecitytornado]

When Foyt promoted the Champ Cars races at Indy in the 80s and early 90s the tracks were good. Even good for a couple of the Friday night WoO Shows too. I still remember The King running down and passing Sammy for the Win! He said he never lifted for like the last 10 laps of the 25 lapper! That's awesome! Whoever did track prep back then, would be great to do it now!

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[ossuks]

I saw some sprint car races in the 80's and early 90's that had great tracks! But about 12 years ago the mile tracks in the mid-west switched their focus to horsemen, which also resulted in surfaces with a LARGE % of sand.

[racephoto1]

Ive been at Springfield at 6 am and Sarge is working. People forget he gets the track AFTER Friday nights concert and not any sooner. Also the other change is no more calcium chloride, which makes a huge difference on the miles.

[Gene Franckowiak]

First, I love the Silver Crown cars and would love to have one and have toyed with the idea for a long time.....however, sometimes reality is ugly and it looks like the Silver Crown Series is going to end.....starting a new organization is not going to save it, not using Ethanol is not going to save it, going on and on on message boards is not going to save it.....as terrible as it is, we all just have to accept reality. The top level organizations and top level IRL ownrs have made the "Champ Cars" an insignificant division with no future.....the fans have abandoned it because it no longer attracts the Nations Best Drivers......just kids buying rides, some old guys hangin' on, and a few good shoes who have to perform this task for their car owners because they already have the car. That is reality folks.....I hate it, but the facts are the facts.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Gene Franckowiak First, I love the Silver Crown cars and would love to have one and have toyed with the idea for a long time.....however, sometimes reality is ugly and it looks like the Silver Crown Series is going to end.....starting a new organization is not going to save it, not using Ethanol is not going to save it, going on and on on message boards is not going to save it.....as terrible as it is, we all just have to accept reality. The top level organizations and top level IRL ownrs have made the "Champ Cars" an insignificant division with no future.....the fans have abandoned it because it no longer attracts the Nations Best Drivers......just kids buying rides, some old guys hangin' on, and a few good shoes who have to perform this task for their car owners because they already have the car. That is reality folks.....I hate it, but the facts are the facts.

Let's wait for that fat lady to sing her song, I think it was called "When the Moon comes over the mountain", I used to watch her in a big old box on the dineing room table as a kid.. In 78 when USAC did it's thing at Indy The car owners took over and did their thing and came up with "CART". Darned near killed Indy car racing. Then Tony George came in and threw them a curve ball and put them out of business. Everybody wants to be like Europe. I kinda of like Indiana myself. Ninty nine point nine percent of the tracks here are oval and most of them are dirt.

USAC does not do a real good job of getting it's point across, They aren't good at promoting things, when some fly by night comes in and throws them a pitch and maybe a little money they jump right on it. This seems to be a pattern for them. Kenny Brown has put a real hurt on their midget deal and has really grown the midget series. Maybe This is the time to find somebody like Mr. Brown and strike out with a new BIG CAR LEAGUE.

Change the rules, No single purpose cars same car must be registered and used on both dirt and pavement track. Get ride of that old underpowered motor and find something new and with some real guts 410 plus or turbo or DOHC make that owners choice. Raise the drivers min age to 21. Keep the fuel right where it is, that helps seperate the men from the boy's and the newbe from the Jurneymen.

Most of the guy's racing the BIG CARS are the guys that have been around for a while. Most of them are businessmen they know how to make money and how to have fun and spend it. If USAC is going to keep on doing "STUPID" things these guys need to find a big old round table somewhere and sit down and make "BIG CARS" or "CHAMP CARS" a money making deal. Give these young kids something to work toward.

It's kinda of funny most Midget drivers have the same last name as their owner's. Very few Sprint Car and even fewer Silver Crown drivers share the same last name.

Honest Dad himself

---------- Post added at 10:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 9:47 PM ----------

Originally Posted by racephoto1 Ive been at Springfield at 6 am and Sarge is working. People forget he gets the track AFTER Friday nights concert and not any sooner. Also the other change is no more calcium chloride, which makes a huge difference on the miles.

Calcium Chloride isn't that what they used to put on dirt to hold the moisture in the track so they would stay together? Why don't they use it anymore? Really worked good.

Honest Dad himself

[racephoto1]

DAD, some deal named the EPA said no more calcium chloride, dang government.

As for drivers, ask anyone of them and they'd love to run a champ dirt car. I also say as I have for 3 years,put them at the Burg, it would put the cars in the fans laps, and let them see what it is all about. But then again I may be wrong. maybe if you could figure out how to race them on a smartphone, the youngsters would get involved.

[darnall]

To DAD.....regarding your post just above this reply.....

I ran out of fingers so I had to stop counting the good points and ideas in your post once I got to 10...and I'm not even talking about the Indycar history lesson at the beginning...

I would love to see the "Crown" series flourish regardless of who's in charge....at the very top of my bucket list is finding a seat to run 100 laps in a 100 inch open wheeler on a dirt mile...

I would love to see an engine program update...there is a remote chance of manufacturer involvement if some of their newer technology could be showcased...yeah that's a longshot but keep in mind that Toyota & Mopar have a presence (yes it's minor) in midget racing, and Roush/Yates is trying really hard to get the blue oval to the top of the sprintcar world.

It would be SOOOOOOOO cool to see a crazy mixture of engines again...that right there is a modern way to remind people of the good old days at the brickyard...pushrod injected motors, DOHC high winders, rotary valves, diesels (betcha Bully Dog would throw some support at a diesel powered crown car), turbos on any and everything possible...foreign, domestic, marine, aircraft, industrial...bring em all on!!!

Regarding what Kenny Brown has done...that is a good point but there is also a counter point hidden there with a historical similarity... In a way Kennys series has helped the USAC midget series...there are some really good caliber teams from PowrI that do support USAC when possible. More good midget racing adds value to any good midget racing...more equipment out there, more exposure, more opportunity to race, competition between series to provide a better product to promoters, fans and car owners....and don't forget....RIVALRIES!!!!!!!

What's historical about that you ask?? Without stirring up a hornets nest and making you Indiana folks mad (if possible...haha) I would like everybody to remember the 1980s and Oklahoma....The 100inch supermodifieds from OK were similar enough to Crown cars that there was participation back and forth...Okie businessman Llyod K Stephens fielded a car for Ron Shuman for the entire USAC campaign....Co sanctioed races with 60 or more cars, grandstands FULL of people, an "US VERSUS THEM" mentality on both sides...a Rich Vogler versus the entire sooner state near riot, and stories and memories that still stir up emotion in thousands of people when mentioned 30 years later.

If there was a Kenny Brown type movement west of the Mississippi River for 100inch cars we could see something like those days again....the Okies still love the long wheelbase cars it seems....Or how about a "MUST SEE RACING CHAMPIONS CROWN SERIES"

It needs to be modern enough to be affordable (more horsepower can be made much cheaper than a 355CI mechanical injected pushrod motor), but still needs the appearance of the good old days style cars....

Drivers should have to bring some sort of credentials other than the family bank account to participate...

Yes the cars should be dual surface cars, and I think there is a way to police that effectively...If a Dave Steele type guy shows up at ONLY the pavement races with a better mousetrap for pavement nobody else will want to run a dirt car against him....so how do you stop that from happening...maybe modest race purses, or flat pay scale race purses, with a ridiculously large point fund for the end of the year....use sponsor dollars for point fund only...let promoters have a show that they can afford with a smaller purse, plus a sanction fee to go into the point fund.

There are plenty of racetracks half mile and larger, dirt and pavement, still left in this country...there just needs to be a product with demand and value so these tracks want it.

Due to where I live I have only been able to see 1 big car race in person in my life, but I would love to see 10 a year. I love the Crown cars...I hate it when people talk about their impending demise...and I get a bit slap happy this late at night and tend to ramble....haha

[Jonr]

I will repeat a statement from my earlier post. Fans vote by putting butts in seats. Promoters promote races that make money. It is obvious by the lack of races that Silver Crown cars are on the decline.

Let's assume that you have a choice to go to a $10,000 to win, $1,000 to start race. Lets assume that you were guarntied at least 35 cars. Lets assume you had to pay $35 for your ticket. What type of cars would you want to see? USAC sprints, USAC/POWRI midgets, USAC Silver crown, WOO Sprints, WOO late models, USMTS modifieds? For most dirt track fans, the silver crown cars would be the last choice.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by darnall To DAD.....regarding your post just above this reply..... I ran out of fingers so I had to stop counting the good points and ideas in your post once I got to 10...and I'm not even talking about the Indycar history lesson at the beginning... I would love to see the "Crown" series flourish regardless of who's in charge....at the very top of my bucket list is finding a seat to run 100 laps in a 100 inch open wheeler on a dirt mile... I would love to see an engine program update...there is a remote chance of manufacturer involvement if some of their newer technology could be showcased...yeah that's a longshot but keep in mind that Toyota & Mopar have a presence (yes it's minor) in midget racing, and Roush/Yates is trying really hard to get the blue oval to the top of the sprintcar world. It would be SOOOOOOOO cool to see a crazy mixture of engines again...that right there is a modern way to remind people of the good old days at the brickyard...pushrod injected motors, DOHC high winders, rotary valves, diesels (betcha Bully Dog would throw some support at a diesel powered crown car), turbos on any and everything possible...foreign, domestic, marine, aircraft, industrial...bring em all on!!! Regarding what Kenny Brown has done...that is a good point but there is also a counter point hidden there with a historical similarity... In a way Kennys series has helped the USAC midget series...there are some really good caliber teams from PowrI that do support USAC when possible. More good midget racing adds value to any good midget racing...more equipment out there, more exposure, more opportunity to race, competition between series to provide a better product to promoters, fans and car owners....and don't forget....RIVALRIES!!!!!!! What's historical about that you ask?? Without stirring up a hornets nest and making you Indiana folks mad (if possible...haha) I would like everybody to remember the 1980s and Oklahoma....The 100inch supermodifieds from OK were similar enough to Crown cars that there was participation back and forth...Okie businessman Llyod K Stephens fielded a car for Ron Shuman for the entire USAC campaign....Co sanctioed races with 60 or more cars, grandstands FULL of people, an "US VERSUS THEM" mentality on both sides...a Rich Vogler versus the entire sooner state near riot, and stories and memories that still stir up emotion in thousands of people when mentioned 30 years later. If there was a Kenny Brown type movement west of the Mississippi River for 100inch cars we could see something like those days again....the Okies still love the long wheelbase cars it seems....Or how about a "MUST SEE RACING CHAMPIONS CROWN SERIES" It needs to be modern enough to be affordable (more horsepower can be made much cheaper than a 355CI mechanical injected pushrod motor), but still needs the appearance of the good old days style cars.... Drivers should have to bring some sort of credentials other than the family bank account to participate... Yes the cars should be dual surface cars, and I think there is a way to police that effectively...If a Dave Steele type guy shows up at ONLY the pavement races with a better mousetrap for pavement nobody else will want to run a dirt car against him....so how do you stop that from happening...maybe modest race purses, or flat pay scale race purses, with a ridiculously large point fund for the end of the year....use sponsor dollars for point fund only...let promoters have a show that they can afford with a smaller purse, plus a sanction fee to go into the point fund. There are plenty of racetracks half mile and larger, dirt and pavement, still left in this country...there just needs to be a product with demand and value so these tracks want it. Due to where I live I have only been able to see 1 big car race in person in my life, but I would love to see 10 a year. I love the Crown cars...I hate it when people talk about their impending demise...and I get a bit slap happy this late at night and tend to ramble....haha

AMEN:

I started out racing micro's in the late 50's across the river from Indiana down in Kentucky. OK I'm a Hill billy and prowd of it. So I'm well aquainted with Okie racing and Okie racing technology. Those guys did things to Cushmans that would be classified as chrimes aganist humanity today. Reverse Cross porting, water cooling, when they got done with them you couldn't even tell they were Cushmans and they sure didn't run like Cushmans either. I know you guys got racing in your blood and you aren't contaminated by some of this Inbred Indy thinking that you got to be just like the guy that beat you last week, you know "FOLLOW" the leader. AJ is racing this year with a young kid from Oklahoma, and from what I have seen you guys may have a little Kentucky in you blood also, this kid has a thing aganist shoes. I'm working on his right foot modulation problem right now, did I say you guys are hard headed too.

I don't see anything wrong with a Sooner based program. What is needed is one guy with a plan and the courage to follow-through. When you put things in committee you end up with USAC or worse. Give it to Bill France Sr. you come up with NASCAR (not my idea of racing) but it works. Unlike USAC if you aren't producing you are "FIRED" and replaced with someone that can.

While the new guys are at it could they try to get us a date at the track at 16th and Georgetown Rd in Indy. You don't need Aero to race there in fact I think racing would be better without the draft. Back in the day they did it all with HORSEPOWER and GONADS and COMMON SENSE. I was also thinking about the people at "Must See Racing" could be the ones to do something like this. This might be the time for a new*** CHAMP CAR SERIES*** "open under new management".

Honest Dad himself

[darnall]

Committee...when a bunch of people who can do nothing get together and decide nothing can be done.

A camel looks like a horse that was planned by a committee...

Anything really successful needs to have one clear cut leader...