Originally Posted by hairracer44 we need to quit letting the media tell use how bad it is and getting depressed about it. I want the media to find some feel good stories in this time of need I'm personally tired of hearing about doom and gloom and how the world is coming to an end. David Hair

Personally, I couldn't agree more. The things you hear, and the things you read are forcing the American public into a panic. An unnecessary one.

Stop believing the negative hype. Go to your jobs and work and buy the goods and services that you need. Help keep the American economy going by keeping other businesses in business and their employees at work. Things are not as dire as the media wants you to believe. Yes, many people are out of work, but the best way to turn it around is if we stop thinking the sky is falling Chicken Little and keep infusing money back into the system. I have a hard time believing that sales are down at malls when everytime I go it's a zoo, doesn't matter where in the country I am. I just don't think things are near as bad as they'd have you believe...

Just my opinion.

DM

[LEADERS EDGE]

Aren't all days historic days? Once it's over it's history.

Don't get me wrong, I do not want to see people lose jobs(Including myself) nor do I want to see people losing their houses and belongings(Including myself).

However, you cannot have good times without the bad. They are hand in hand.

Sure, the car companies are down right now, but it isn't because they make bad products. It is because they make good products. The average lifespan of the vehical on the roads today is 9.7 years. The highest average since they began recording it. Soon however, there will be many people buying cars because the others are at the end of their life cycle.

Have the markets tanked? ABSOLUTELY. That doesn't mean they will always be down the same as they always can't be up. There are some great buys right now and I personally believe GE and Ford will look a whole lot better in the next 2 years. GM may end up filling for bankruptcy, but they aren't going anywhere. Dodge will get rolled up, but they have quite a few desireable designs.

Sure we have defaults and foreclosures, but we also have loan reorganization and investors snapping up some of the best deals in history. Lets be honest here, did everyone really drive by all of those new housing additions on your way to the races and think the housing boom was infinite?

In many ways, I think the American consumer is just tired. Tired of working the most amount of hours in the modern world and tired of being on the treadmill of life. They want to catch their breath and slow down. In many ways, the consumer is getting smarter and doesn't want to be a sucker anymore. They don't want to pay the interest, the taxes and overdraft fees. They just want to live. Unfortunately, that may also cause them to have to lower their standard of living because there may be less of a need for their services. So much of this is going on because people aren't just buying any and everything anymore. The American consumer is actually starting to think before it buys. Of course it had to learn that lesson after running through thousands of dollars on credit cards and taking equity loans to go on vacation, but hey; better late than never.

I don't think it's a coincidence that we work all these hours, with all of these outside financial pressures and we have all of this material wealth; but we can't get it up, we can't have kids, were depressed and we can't stay married.(In turn losing half of the stuff you gave up sex for, worried about and still owe money on.)

I know this, for the years when it was just the inner cities that where affected by these things it wasn't a big deal. Now that it is in the suburbs, suddenly it's a crises. What's the saying? When it happens to your neighbor it's a recession, when it happens to you it's a depression.

Dean is right, the news companies are selling fear because it helps drive their ratings. We always hear about 1 company laying off 1,000 workers, but we never hear about the 1,000 companies hiring 1 person.

I remember hearing about Crazy Eddies. I heard about them because the company was part of an elaborate accounting scheme. I forget the specifics, but it was a very complex deal that took some others down with them.

[TQ97]

I wasn't going to post, then I was, then I wasn't, now after seeing this headline http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090309/...ge/help_wanted , here I am......

I will apologize beforehand as I am going to ramble and hit various points, mainly because I didn't respond when I saw them the first time.

Little background of my 12 years in the financial services industry...I've been an investment advisor with a large midwestern bank for the last 7 years, was at a small local Indiana bank for the previous 5 years, 3 of which I was licensed in invesments. After what we saw in 00-02, I didn't think we'd be in another bear so soon, but having said that, in hindsight, it's easy to see why.

Back when I was doing loans in the late 90's, I remember telling the appraiser, I need the value to be XXX, and I honestly don't remember it ever not happening. Why? Lack of regulation is my guess. When we moved on from our starter home to a nicer home in 2003, there were 10 lots left in our old subdivision undeveloped and another 10 houses were already in foreclosure due to ARM's and taxes on the properties. That was 6 years ago, in a 130 track subdivision. Looking back, those were warning signs.

Leaders Edge - I agreed a lot with what you said, I truly believe we will pull through this, eventually. What I disagree with, is the so what, unless you own bank shares or work at one, this doesn't affect you. Obviously, I qualify under both issues, but this is why I beg to differ. That bank that tightens its lending policy (sometimes rightfully so) affects everything. Small employers can't get LOC's for cash flow, younger people starting out can't get a quality loan to afford the car or house. Don't get me wrong, there were tons of people geting those cars and loans who shouldn't of. But this affects all of us.....case in point, I have excellent credit. In the past, my current credit score, would of been enough for me to almost state my requirements when asking for credit. I recently tried to refinance my house. Problem #1, the Gov't mortgage programs raised the credit score tiers to get the best rates. With a 737 credit score I got docked a .25 point on my rate. (for those that don't know, at 700, you have excellent credit). Problem #2, declining home values due to foreclosures. I bought my house 6 years ago, with an appraised value of $250,000. Since then, I've put $48,000 into the house - not in maintenance, not in repairs, in upgrades, ceramic tile floors, wood floors, new appliances, etc. My house just appraised for $250,000. That affects everyone -had I been able to refinance, it would of saved me $300 a month. At least part of that $300 would of went somewhere, wal mart, best buy, leaders edge. Now just take my situation and say it happened to 1 out of every 1000 people in this country....how much $$ is that, not being spent in our economy. I don't know, I'm too tired to calculate it.

I also don't think it's as bad as the media want you to believe. As Mills said, why are the malls packed every time in every town he goes to. Here's another one, I've been out to dinner at a pasta place and steak house the last 2 Saturday nights, in 2 very different towns, Greenfield and Carmel, at 8 pm, and had almost an hour wait at both locations. Sure there are record foreclosures - we also have record home ownership right now too. I realize, I'm being a bit sarcastic there, but it's true. And the unemployment #s are the same thing....the amount of people unemployed right now, the media will say is the same amount as in the height of the depression...COME ON!!! We have how many more millions of people living in the country now than then.....you have to look at %'s. Trust me, I know better than anyone the effect the media has on people's minds....I field 20 calls every day about the latest newspaper article or news segment that got people to forget about their long term goals.

Another problem this economy/country has is we reward people for the wrong reasons. Case in point, and let me perfectly clear...I am sensitive to people losing their jobs...it's terrible. My wife was an architect for the same small home builder for 17 years, straight out of high school. 3 months ago she lost her job. She saw this coming, was proactive and took on a part time job at the local library, making 75% LESS, than what she had been, so she at least was doing something. Not once drawing a dime of unemployment. The boss's brother on the other hand, fully capable of finding another job, is drawing unemployment, sitting at home drinking PBR every day. We actually would of been better off for my wife to do the same thing (minus the PBR, lol) and not have to pay childcare for our son. A family friend of ours unfortuanately lost their job last week. He was told by his case worker (not sure if thats the right name), in no uncertain terms, DO NOT interview for any job where you will make less than what you were, or your benefits will end. That's just stupid....there are cases when making less is worthwhile, shorter commute, better advancement opportunities, the least of which is being employed!!! Back to my headline at the top of the post....there are jobs out there, they are just in different fields, which leads me to this....

We WERE a manufacturing economy/country. My Grandfather retired from Ford after 35+ years, and he would roll over in his grave and probably slap me if he knew my opinion of things. The jobs left the country because they were overpriced in our country. You can't pay someone $60/hr with benefits to put a clamp on a rubber hose 50 times a day and expect to remain profitable. I don't care what the industry is.

Things are changing....think back 20 years ago. How many jobs were there in software design, internet design, IT, etc. We are a technology economy/country now imho. What needs to happen - in a nutshell - we need the next internet to evolve. What is it... imho mass transit....I'm not talking buses, and traditional trains, I'm speaking of the mono rail stuff. It needs to be built just like the interstate system was. I know the larger cities already have some of this, but I'm talking about linking the whole country this way. Think of the job creation, the new industry it creates. It actually combines the manufacturing and technology fields.

The markets - honestly, it's all oversold on fear. That doesn't mean we're at the bottom, but there are ridiculous opportunities out there right now. Good companies have been beat down with bad. It's ok for some companies to fail and go out of business....this is what we call capitalism. My last rant is this...the markets woudn't have been nearly as beaten down, if they would ban shorting stocks. For those that don't know, shorting is basically betting the stock goes down. To me, it's practically unAmerican....it goes against everything this country was based on by our forefathers. You don't like a stock, fine, don't buy it, buy something else. But IMHO I think it should be illegal to short a stock, causing the price to go down so quickly. That's a lot of what this has been....a large number of people shorting financial companies, over and over and over.

Just my 2 cents guys and gals, sorry for the rant. Just couldn't take it anymore

[trencherman]

On TQ97's post, i would have to agree for the most part. imo the fuel crisis put us in a final spin to set us where we are today. and I'm afraid if fuel prices continue to rise. no matter what what stimulus there is we will have a hard time rebounding. if you take
just 10 gal of gas bought a week on 250 million vehiles licensed in the us at an extra 2 bucks a gal. the amount of money not going into the economy would be around 130 billion dollars. but padding the oil kings pockets. and i'm sure that number might be modest due to gallons actuallly sold and price fluctuations. so maybe the ones that say "i don't mind spending extra for gas" should think about how much effect things like this has on the economy .i hope things turn around . I was in construction for 25 yrs. been laid off since thanksgiving. so i hope things turn around. the company i worked for spent their fuel budget in the first 4 months of 08, and that is only one example of the effect fuel sales has on the economy. so maybe mass transit would help a lot

[racephoto1]

After reading some posts after my last one in this thread I will add some more.

1. Greed is good. It puts a roof over your head, food in your stomach, and a car in your driveway. Greed with corruption is bad. Unfortunately at times they go hand in hand.

2. Nafta should've worked , except for one problem , wage disparity. If the mexicans had been making what we were, it would have been a great boom economically for both countries. Unfortunately they weren't and aren't. Instead of raising wages in Mexico, it did the opposite, and lowered ours. Unfortunately the idiots in DC forgot that , when you put a weak battery with a strong one, the strong one grows weak.

3. Go shopping ,but buy American. IF you go to walmart, buy only American made products. The money stays in America that way, instead of being shipped overseas somewhere. Also, buy from a local store if possible.That way the money stays in your neighborhood, not someplace in Arkansas.

4 . Charity starts at home. Help your neighbor and friends.It doesn't take much , but does make a difference, and if times get much worse, it could make a big difference.

[JEFFSTOY]

If the cost of living was the same I damn sure would.

[duel]

I think if fuel stays below $3.00 a gallon this year most people will travel places and that should help a little in regards to race tracks. Now,the way to stimulate this thing is to make sure the government grows even larger. forget about drilling in this huge country of ours and start building mass transit systems to all race tracks. i just wish i would have had the foresight 30 years ago to work for this giant machine. but hey! they are the answer to getting us out of this thing right?:O:

[JordanBlanton]

Originally Posted by duel I think if fuel stays below $3.00 a gallon this year most people will travel places and that should help a little in regards to race tracks. Now,the way to stimulate this thing is to make sure the government grows even larger. forget about drilling in this huge country of ours and start building mass transit systems to all race tracks. i just wish i would have had the foresight 30 years ago to work for this giant machine. but hey! they are the answer to getting us out of this thing right?:O:

Big government causes the problem, only makes sense that they're the ones to fix it, right? :kookoo

[LEADERS EDGE]

T.Q. 97 is correct. A failed bank is bad. My point was to say that it shouldn't cause people to panic and take their money out. My intent wasn't to make it seem trivial.

I agree on the shorts. The banks are getting killed on the shorts. That is sad in my opinion.

The fuel costs where the tipping point for sure.

[B-square]

I agree whole-heartedly with Dean, Brent and Fisher with their posts. Brent's brother is working on getting Kokomo back on track each and every day and doing a fine job. The business where I work (industrial/retail), has seen slight decreases, but nothing major. The average homeowner in town has accepted what is going on and everyone I've spoken to has mentioned that they can't wait for the track to open so they can forget about everything if only for a few hours each Sunday night.

Brett