[openwheelKT]

Originally Posted by Dano959 Post of the Year!!!!! :applaud::applaud: And your follow-up is pretty close, too...... I've been biting my tongue for a few days now, as it seems that many of the more vocal posters here don't realize that it's been 40 years since the rear enigine cars appeared. Besides, they wouldn't be happy even if they ran the Indy 500 with Silver Crown cars......... They have roll cages now, doncha know. :headbang:headbang

Well, it's nice to see somebody that was around gets that it's not 1950 anymore in regard to the Indy Car arguement. Some people seem to struggle with getting that through their head.

I have NO DOUBT racing was better back then. I wasn't around, but I sure wish I could have been. Based on what I read and talk I hear from others, it sounds great. The only thing that is better today is safety. You'll never see an A.J. or Mario do what they did ever again. No driver today is allowed to drive anything and everything. Change isn't always good, but it happens so there is no reason to be down on everything.

[Crankin]

Originally Posted by openwheelKT ...Changed, just not as much foreign invation....that's changing too though. The days of anything on the major level of racing in the U.S. being american drivers only is coming to an end. So if that's your major problem, I guess it's "local" racing only. Everybody has their choice. :checkered:

Yes sir, everybody has their choice, and the choice of average "Joe American Fan" is not Open Wheel racing. It's not a matter of wishing it was 1950 again, it's just a fact that both series are full of foreign drivers. Is that a just a coincidence? They have tried repeatedly to run an all foreign series here in America, it's called Formula 1... That (F-1), on the big sports page in this country, is so far down the list you need a search party to find it. Nobody cares.

To take it one step further, even the American drivers in these series, who are they (especially CART)??? Where did they come from? So they raced BMW Sedans, or some Formula Atlantic car somewhere, for 2, 12 race seasons, in front of empty grandstands.... Because why?.. Nobody in the USA cares. And all this makes these guys qualified (beside all the ride buying) to run at the top level of Open Wheel Racing??? Now compare that to say 1950, or even the 60's, and 70's: The drivers had to earn their way to the pinnacle of Open Wheel racing. They raced thousands and thousands of laps, all over the country, in front of packed houses! Before any these guys convinced an owner to let them run their Indy Car, these guys already had a fan base from not only their "local" area, but around the country! They were already heroes before they even set their butt in a Champ Car. Such is not the case today.
You can see it in NASCAR. No, the average NASCAR fan did not know who J.J. Yeley was, but most above average race fans did. Then the NASCAR machine takes over, selling the world on the former USAC Triple Crown champion!! J.J. has done this, and J.J. has done that while driving those super hairy Sprint Cars, blindfolded!!!
By comparison: I would consider myself an above average race fan, and I have to ask, who the hell is Simon Pagenaud?? Well here's what Simon Pagenaud has done in his career (cut and pasted from his website): My career in motorsport
2007 : takes part to the Champ Car championship
2006 : Champion of the Champ Car Atlantic series and Rookie of the year
2005 : 15th of the World Series by Renault
2004 : 2nd of the Eurocup Formula Renault 2000
2003 : 3rd of the French Formula Renault 2000
2002 : 9th of the Eurocup Formula Renault 2000, 3rd of the French Formula Renault 2000
2001 : Winner of the ELF Wheel, 2nd of the French championship of the Renault Campus Formula

:respect: WOW!!!!.. And how many Americans do you think caught a Formula Renault race last year?? I don't think P.T. Barnum himself, could get average "Joe American Fan" to give 2 sh*t's about this guy, or for that matter what the "ELF Wheel" is!.. And just think, you have a field full of 15 other guys (and some girls), just like him!!! YAY!

So, as you say, "the days of anything on the major level of racing in the U.S. being american drivers only is coming to an end." maybe accurate. That certainly doesn't make it a good thing though.... And let's not even start about rear engine cars, spec cars, and the technology that let's 20 cars hold their foot to the floor for 200 laps and still call it racing

And just for the record, what Moses posted was not only well said, but I feel pretty much the same way!! Now excuse me while I go watch some highlights of Johnnie Parsons winnnig some rain shortened race that paid a lot of $, and glory... I just wish I could remember what year that took place??

[openwheelKT]

Crankin - I agree with all of your points 100%. I too could care less about 95% of the guys that ran Champ Car because I have no idea who they are. So the IRL isn

[Crankin]

Not taking it personally!!!:thumb
Your right, the Mears, Sullivan, Rahal, Andretti, Unser era, was pretty much the last hurah for Indy Car style racing. I am not advocating they all come from Sprint Cars, though that would be nice. I am just saying that the current deal isn't going to change a thing. Indy Car racing will remain where it has been on the American sport frontier for the last 15 or so years.

Look at what received a ton of press in the recent past... Not just with our group, but nationwide.. Jack Hewitt, Steve Kinser, Greg Ray ( I am sure there's a couple others I am not thinking of at the moment)... All real American stories that people in this country can get behind. Sticking with our guys, those same types are already in our midst: Dave Steele, Dave Darland, Brian Tyler, this list could go on for a while, but you get my point... And that's just our form of racing. Then add plenty of good ole' American stories out there in Karting, off road (Robby Gordon), stock cars, whatever... Race Cars that people in this country can relate to.. Not some Formula car that runs overseas or with the SCCA on every 3rd Sunday where the only people in attendance are the participants. Mix in some Kanaan's, Helio's, and Tracy's, and then your gonna have something America is gonna care about, again!!!!!

All that though, is just a pipe dream :crying:

[cecil98]

Forsythe already stuck it to George. He folded his team up today. Sour grapes.

[Dwight Clock]

Just a note on this "Way it was/Way it is" stuff. Unless an unforeseeable rules change interferes, when the 2013 Indianapolis 500 is checkered more Indy 500's will have been won by rear engined cars than their front engined counterparts. :eek:

[openwheelKT]

Agree on that too Crankin. They want a variety of venues; they should have a variety of drivers. If it doesn't happen, won't matter on the grand stage.

As for Forsythe, I'm not surprised. He's pretty much a weasel if you ask me. Kalkhoven seems like a pretty good guy that wants things to improve. I don't agree with his philosophy on how to build a series in the US, but at least he could see it wasn't working and something needed to change. I guarantee Forsythe would have kept going if he could have bought KK out. He could care less about the sport...just himself. So because it’s not his series anymore, he doesn’t want to run. No great loss IMO. Get lost.

They do have to find Tracy a seat though. Who’s going to fight Danica?

Pretty amazing stat Dwight, hard to believe.

one of the problems with the IRl also is they are just not on TV enough ffor anyone to get to know them. All we ever see is just the race and thats it, Why do you think Nascrap got so big, i cant put it on speed without seeing somthing about either the drivers or the race