WHere is non wing racing going wrong.

Go Fast · 10/8/07, 1:37 PM

I get where Kevin is coming from. The big difference is the saturation of weekly non-wng racing. It is commonplace in Indiana. The traveling series like the Outlaws and former All Stars were a "special deal" when they came to town. The fact that they have corporate sponsorship for their "special shows" helps defray some of the cost that would have to be passed to the promoter as well.

Suppy and demand is what is keeping purses down.

10/8/07, 1:52 PM

I for sure know where #5 is coming from. You should be in the Modified or Super Stock ranks. It is even worse there. Bloomington and Brownstown both had a "special" Wolfe Pack races that paid $1000 to win, yet 5th paid less than a regular weekly show.($125). That right there is a crime in my opinion since a competitve car is well into the $30,000 range. But then you have those that say, "dont run that division, or dont run that track, bla, bla, bla"...... That is easier said than done though.

ossuks · 10/8/07, 2:15 PM

The local purse will not go up as long as there are at least 6 tracks within 100 miles of Indy running sprint cars every weekend. The market is full, I have to decide which track I will go to each week.

Another reason is that the non-wing sprint car driver will run weekly shows for $1200 to win. Why does a promoter ever run a race with a purse bigger than $5000 total when he knows he will get all the big names as long as USAC is not racing!!

When you ask local drivers why they races for so little there reply is they have bills to pay! So, I guess the real question is "why don't wing racers have bills to pay?"

staggerman · 10/8/07, 2:55 PM

I know exactly where Briscoe is coming from as with any race we run I look at what does it pay to win and start. It is up to every driver/owner to check and find this info out prior to going. But as long as the sanctioning bodies and drivers show up nothing will change.

Heck I have always wondered how MSCS can get all these 5k and 10k to win shows but USAC never gets a higher payday other than the 3-Crown.

I would take a 4k to win and 500 to start with 100 tow for everyone instead of 10k to win.

Dgentry51 · 10/8/07, 3:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riskybrisky5

This is not a slam to Lawrenceburg speedway or MSCS. I was on the phone with a wing racer this evening asking me how I had done last night. He ask me what I made for my 15th place. I told him to guess he guessed $600. I laughed and said how about $230. He went on to tell me that the Hoosier fall classic at the same track paid 500 to start, and around a $1000 to run 10th. Both races paid $10,000.00 to win. I think 10th paid around $500 last night. I just do not understand because in my opinion we put on a much better show than the wing cars. We had more cars in the pits and would assume around the same # of fans. I also know of three teams that got into the wing show for free through the All Stars. So where are we going wrong. It just drives me crazy. Sorry for all the spelling and grammer errors.

Hey ,kevin well said ,me personally i thought the KISS payout was what a regular weekly show should pay .Im going to run one more year and retire because Ijust cant justify the costs Kevin I applaud you for speaking out because it takes someone as yourself (well respected by everyone) other wise it falls on deaf ears.

10/8/07, 8:32 PM

I think the nail has been hit on the head. when a promoter draws a good car count, gets good drivers, etc. why raise the purse? Especially when raising the purse often sends cars to the regular show at another track within the same market. Wing guys have bills to pay also, but generally they are ready to travel further in order to race. The exception may be central pa, but still other than saturday night, there is only one track running a show, and saturday there are two I believe. Indiana there are what? approx 2 options friday (bloomington, gas city), 4 saturday (Paragon, Putnamville, Lawrenceburg, Moler) and Kokomo sunday. Mix in KISS, MSCS, USAC shows around here, Danville etc etc. and you have a heck of a lot of options. Cool for the race fan, cool for the racer, but it has to make a promoters job tough. If we want to see the purse spread out we drivers and owners need to ask for it. I believe spreading it out would help many of the teams and drivers.

Charles Nungester · 10/8/07, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy Lowe

From what was posted on Kokomo's website earlier in the year the sprint purse for the Hewitt Classic was a $14,105 for 20 starters in the feature. The winners share was $3,000 then it went $1,500, $1,000, $800, $700, $650, $600, $550, $500, $475 (10th), $465, $455, $450, $440, $435, $430, $425, $420, $410, $400 (20th).

Which is basically twice a normal purse thoughtout the pack with a little added padding 10th-19th.

Honestly, THiS SHOULD BE A NORMAL SHOW's payout, The track that can do it will be VERY POPULAR.

You might be able to do it though sponsorships. Gas City also did it once with their doubler that a sponsor footed the extra purse *THANK YOU*

A slight gate increase isn't unheard off to draw more cars for more money. I still say if a track can run a regular SPRINT, LM and Mod race at normal gate, They could easily run a sprint, Mod and pure stock for a little more $$ through a sprint pack.

Chuck, Not a promotor but I've seen the Sprint, LM, Mod thing done. I have no Idea if the promotor made or lost money but the fact that it was done more than once indicates it wasn't a looser.

cecil98 · 10/8/07, 10:45 PM

kevin, I don't blame the promotors on this one. Promoting is a hard earned buck. If I'm paying $1200 to win and $150 to start and I'm still drawing 30 to 50 cars, I'd be an absolute fool to raise the purse. I want to race more than I want to make money. I think most of us poor racers feel that way and that's why we show up. We'd be able to race longer if we made more but, we'll run until the money dries up, whenever that is. One thing, we will not take gifts from under the Xmas tree or food off of the table to run a race car. When it comes to that point, it's over.

10/8/07, 10:59 PM

I totally understand what Kevin is saying!!

$230 for 15th in the feature of a $10,000 to win show.....:doh::doh: Come on!

If 'big name' guys will be there anyhow, drop the winners cut to $6,000, (still sounds 'impressive' to Joe Public if that is what the promoter/sanctioning body is going for) and sprinkle the rest of that $4,000 through the field! :thumb:

Also, the $1,200 to win weekly show is actually a joke. In the '70s places like Eldora were having $1,000 to win shows...at that time, $1,000 was a decent amount of money. Nowdays, high school kids have a lot more than that in the stereo in their cars!

Motormasher · 10/13/07, 9:53 AM

Non wing racing is just not as exciting as wing racing period! I didn't see any non wing race that was as exciting as the WoO show at Haubstadt all year anywhere! And from just what I read on here the Fall Classic was just as good at Lawernceburg.
Wings make the cars so much faster and handle so much better it just makes for a better show.
There is nothing wrong with non wingers and I like driving them, but in my own experience it just isn't as exciting.
As for the payout there shouldn't be any difference. All races should pay back through the field. Its rediculous to put all the $$$ to win and then pay peanuts from 3rd on back. But the problem is everyone keeps showing up and running for nothing.
Even if I don't win the lottery I would like to promote a new series that would give everyone an equal chance to win without spending a fortune on a car/motor or rig to get there and at the end of the season a very nice reward for the top 10 in points.

10/8/07, 1:37 PM	#11 Re: WHere is non wing racing going wrong.
Go Fast Senior Member Race Count This Year: 3 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 537	I get where Kevin is coming from. The big difference is the saturation of weekly non-wng racing. It is commonplace in Indiana. The traveling series like the Outlaws and former All Stars were a "special deal" when they came to town. The fact that they have corporate sponsorship for their "special shows" helps defray some of the cost that would have to be passed to the promoter as well. Suppy and demand is what is keeping purses down. __________________ Gary Ooley I never had a bad day, just some more challenging than others!

10/8/07, 1:52 PM	#12 Re: WHere is non wing racing going wrong.
beadlock Posts: n/a	I for sure know where #5 is coming from. You should be in the Modified or Super Stock ranks. It is even worse there. Bloomington and Brownstown both had a "special" Wolfe Pack races that paid $1000 to win, yet 5th paid less than a regular weekly show.($125). That right there is a crime in my opinion since a competitve car is well into the $30,000 range. But then you have those that say, "dont run that division, or dont run that track, bla, bla, bla"...... That is easier said than done though.

10/8/07, 2:15 PM	#13 Re: WHere is non wing racing going wrong.
ossuks Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 980	The local purse will not go up as long as there are at least 6 tracks within 100 miles of Indy running sprint cars every weekend. The market is full, I have to decide which track I will go to each week. Another reason is that the non-wing sprint car driver will run weekly shows for $1200 to win. Why does a promoter ever run a race with a purse bigger than $5000 total when he knows he will get all the big names as long as USAC is not racing!! When you ask local drivers why they races for so little there reply is they have bills to pay! So, I guess the real question is "why don't wing racers have bills to pay?"

10/8/07, 2:55 PM	#14 Re: WHere is non wing racing going wrong.
staggerman Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 807	I know exactly where Briscoe is coming from as with any race we run I look at what does it pay to win and start. It is up to every driver/owner to check and find this info out prior to going. But as long as the sanctioning bodies and drivers show up nothing will change. Heck I have always wondered how MSCS can get all these 5k and 10k to win shows but USAC never gets a higher payday other than the 3-Crown. I would take a 4k to win and 500 to start with 100 tow for everyone instead of 10k to win.

10/8/07, 8:32 PM	#16 Re: WHere is non wing racing going wrong.
GeoffDodge Posts: n/a	I think the nail has been hit on the head. when a promoter draws a good car count, gets good drivers, etc. why raise the purse? Especially when raising the purse often sends cars to the regular show at another track within the same market. Wing guys have bills to pay also, but generally they are ready to travel further in order to race. The exception may be central pa, but still other than saturday night, there is only one track running a show, and saturday there are two I believe. Indiana there are what? approx 2 options friday (bloomington, gas city), 4 saturday (Paragon, Putnamville, Lawrenceburg, Moler) and Kokomo sunday. Mix in KISS, MSCS, USAC shows around here, Danville etc etc. and you have a heck of a lot of options. Cool for the race fan, cool for the racer, but it has to make a promoters job tough. If we want to see the purse spread out we drivers and owners need to ask for it. I believe spreading it out would help many of the teams and drivers.

10/8/07, 10:45 PM	#18 Re: WHere is non wing racing going wrong.
cecil98 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,399	kevin, I don't blame the promotors on this one. Promoting is a hard earned buck. If I'm paying $1200 to win and $150 to start and I'm still drawing 30 to 50 cars, I'd be an absolute fool to raise the purse. I want to race more than I want to make money. I think most of us poor racers feel that way and that's why we show up. We'd be able to race longer if we made more but, we'll run until the money dries up, whenever that is. One thing, we will not take gifts from under the Xmas tree or food off of the table to run a race car. When it comes to that point, it's over.

10/8/07, 10:59 PM	#19 Re: WHere is non wing racing going wrong.
Leadfoot 83 Posts: n/a	I totally understand what Kevin is saying!! $230 for 15th in the feature of a $10,000 to win show.....:doh::doh: Come on! If 'big name' guys will be there anyhow, drop the winners cut to $6,000, (still sounds 'impressive' to Joe Public if that is what the promoter/sanctioning body is going for) and sprinkle the rest of that $4,000 through the field! :thumb: Also, the $1,200 to win weekly show is actually a joke. In the '70s places like Eldora were having $1,000 to win shows...at that time, $1,000 was a decent amount of money. Nowdays, high school kids have a lot more than that in the stereo in their cars!

10/13/07, 9:53 AM	#20 Re: WHere is non wing racing going wrong.
Motormasher Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 980	Non wing racing is just not as exciting as wing racing period! I didn't see any non wing race that was as exciting as the WoO show at Haubstadt all year anywhere! And from just what I read on here the Fall Classic was just as good at Lawernceburg. Wings make the cars so much faster and handle so much better it just makes for a better show. There is nothing wrong with non wingers and I like driving them, but in my own experience it just isn't as exciting. As for the payout there shouldn't be any difference. All races should pay back through the field. Its rediculous to put all the $$$ to win and then pay peanuts from 3rd on back. But the problem is everyone keeps showing up and running for nothing. Even if I don't win the lottery I would like to promote a new series that would give everyone an equal chance to win without spending a fortune on a car/motor or rig to get there and at the end of the season a very nice reward for the top 10 in points.