[mcgerigle]

Sorry, hit the post button before making my point. All other expenses equal $1644, while the tire bill including sales tax comes to $2210! IMHO this is what has killed pavement midget racing! John McGerigle

[Revolution Racing]

John,

Great post. There can be no question that the numbers you shared are the basis for many teams such as yours to stay away, just as you have. But as you said, you already own your equipment and the cost of it was not even a factor in your analysis. And I think you'll agree, right now we don't even have enough guys who have the opportunity to decide whether or not to come out and race what they own - we need more competitors. So, ON TOP of the dismal picture you painted, imagine what it must look like to a guy who is faced with all of that, PLUS the cost of acquiring equipment of the caliber needed to compete on a track such as Irwindale, on Thanksgiving.

I think Midget racing, on both surfaces, can survive and even prosper if we begin to look forward a little. But the one area that I frankly just don't see 'making it', is large track pavement racing. Irwindale, IRP (or whatever they are calling it this week), Phoenix, etc... We just won't see the purses neccesary to support that style of racing anytime soon and as you have said, the average car owner can not fund this habit out of his pocket. I see Midgets going back to short tracks.

[DonMoore10]

That's $3854.00 total for the T night race. OUCH! Now consider that many of the competing teams will be coming from Indiana and not New Mexico.........

[team3521]

Originally Posted by mcgerigle Sorry, hit the post button before making my point. All other expenses equal $1644, while the tire bill including sales tax comes to $2210! IMHO this is what has killed pavement midget racing! John McGerigle

Amen brother! Exactly what I was trying to say in earlier posts. There are ways of doing surgery on the National classes with a scalpel instead of a chain saw. Tires, Weight, RPM limits, etc...

Don... we might as well just eliminate the National and D1 classes of midgets from what I am getting from your resent posts and we all can buy "Ford Focus" midgets and we'll all be happy. correct? Is that the answer to saving Midget racing?

I understand the starter/clutch thing, but is that really what we need to save it?

Sorry! I don't think so!

[DonMoore10]

This thread for the most part has remained civil. Team 3521, you are getting a little personal here with your approach and we have no idea who you are. If you are going to address me like we're old friends, I'd like to know who I'm discussing this subject with. Thanks!

Nowhere in this thread do you see any reference by me to a Ford Focus engine. I do not claim to be an engine expert but my vote has been for Keith's Revolution engine or the equivelant. From my readings, his engine has been somewhat competitive with the exotic engines. and it's been on the market for some time now. Maybe Keith can get on here and tell us the strengths of his $11,000 engine compared to the Ford Focus.

If his 11K engine is what he says it is and will last for up to three years, then do the math regarding costs and maintenance over the long haul. Let's review the facts again: The endorsed exotic engine of choice costs $22,000 new. The RR engine is $11,000 new. That's an initial savings right from the start of $11,000. Now, it's no secret that some of the teams are freshening (the head) the engine after a few races. Let's say the cost of the freshening is $3000-4000 PLUS shipping costs which could be several hundred dollars. If the engine is freshened twice during a ONE season, we are talking costs that are near the price of the RR engine and that is just ONE season. Furthermore, if the entire engine is overhauled, we are talking nearly $10,000 as I pointed out from a recent classified. Just stating the facts here from what has been published on the internet. I haven't read anything to the contrary from anyone that has signed their name with some facts otherwise.

Now, if you look at the figures over a period of years, this is a tremendous amount of money that is saved. Just for starters, if a potential new owner were approached with the choice of the two engines, which one do you think would be more inviting and have the better chance of getting this guy into midget racing?

[Jonr]

Originally Posted by Revin ONE OF THE COUNTRY”S LARGEST MIDGET PURSES UP FOR GRABS AT THE 3RD ANNUAL GOLD CROWN MIDGET NATIONALS! Teams support new purse structure as they get ready for one of Midget Racing’s grandest events! PONTOON BEACH, Ill. (September 11, 2011) -- Kevin and Tammy Gundaker announced today the 3rd Annual Gold Crown Midget Nationals will offer one of Midget Racing’s richest payout for competitors with a total purse of over $100,000! The event, presented by Dupont and Color Master, is scheduled for October 6th through the 8th at Tri-City Speedway in Granite City, Il and has been one of premier midget racing events annually since its inception in 2009. Payouts for Thursday and Friday’s qualifying races have been increased, as well as the prize money paid out throughout the “B” mains for all nights. “After listening to the many racers who travel and support the Gold Crown Midget Nationals, we restructured our purse to better support all of the racers who support our great event. While the overall purse remains at the same level for the 3rd year in a row, the restructured payout helps the more than 45 teams traveling in for our three day event” stated Kevin Gundaker, Promoter of Tri-City Speedway. Top teams from the many midget sanctioning bodies across the country have already committed their support of the event. While the event is a United States Auto Club (USAC Racing) national points race for all three nights of racing, teams will not be required to hold a USAC license to race this event. Along with the Midgets will be even more open wheel action as Tri-City welcomes the 410 non-wing sprint cars on all three nights, these will be unsanctioned. Jerry Coons, Jr. and Dave Darland will be among those drivers who will be competing in both classes. Entry forms are being released on Tuesday September 13th The payouts will be as follows: Classes: Thursday Midgets $3,000 to Win $300 to Start 410 Non Winged Sprints $2,000 to Win $200 to Start Friday Midgets $3,000 to Win $300 to Start 410 Non Winged Sprints $2,000 to Win $200 to Start Saturday Midgets $10,000 to Win $700 to Start 410 Non Winged Sprints $2,000 to Win $200 to Start For tickets and more information, log on to tricityspeedway.net or find us Facebook For additional information contact Tammy Gundaker: 636-448-9111 Tri-City Speedway is located just across the Mississippi River from St. Louis, MO in Pontoon Beach, IL. Take Interstate 270 to exit 4 (Hwy 203) and then go south on Hwy 203 approximately 1/2 mile to the track.

I think that all of us on this board that have been stating that they enjoy watching the National midget car series should vote with our buts, and be at this race in October. I know I was there last year, and it was the race of the season.

I still believe that there is enough supply and demand to have a national series with national shows, and a region series with regional shows.

[addictedtodirt]

I will "vote with my butt" at Tri-City. A weekend of this type is great for a fan like me, and the teams.
With teams not having to have a USAC licence, this should help increase the field too.

[team3521]

There are ways of doing surgery on the National classes with a scalpel instead of a chain saw. Tires-costs and limits, Weight, RPM limits-this would increase the time frame in between rebuilds, etc...

Sorry Don, I didn't feel that I was being uncivil or disrespectful. From now on, I'll address you as Mr. Moore.

[DonMoore10]

Hey, if you're going to have a back yard fence discussion, just tell us who you are so you have some credibility.

[Revolution Racing]

Don,

I too am encouraged by the civilized (for this board!) tone of this thread. Maybe we are finally reaching some consensus as a community, that something needs to be done. I'd like to accept your offer to explain a little bit more about the RRE ECOtec and what I feel it can bring to the table.

Let me start by stating one more time, that this program is not the focus program. Both engines are twin cam four valve designs, but that is about where the similarities end. The Chevy is bigger, its all aluminum, and as the record proves, this engine can be built to do just about whatever you could expect from a 4 cylinder. Much has been accomplished with the ECOtec platform in all kinds of racing, from box stock road racers to supercharged drag engines producing in excess of 1,200 HP. The focus was a cute little engine that did a nice job of filling the need for a low cost, entry level program designed to get more kids into Midgets. It worked well for that purpose and the large number of National Midget and Sprint drivers who came from the FFM is the proof of that. BUT, nobody ever heard me state that a focus could ever be anything but a Focus. The ECOtec (and the Honda, and probably some others too) is different. It can be made into just about whatever we decide we want it to be.

For about 11k, we can have a strong running engine that will last for years, sip fuel, and require virtually no maintenance. This engine is already well proven. As I have said many times, it is a step behind the best of the National motors, particularly at the end of the striaght but as many have seen, a guy can enter this engine at a short track race, make the show, and if he and his car are any good, often finish in the front half or even the top five. This engine could EASILY form the basis of some type of equivalancy formula that would allow it to compete with traditional engines if that is the way we choose to go....

For about 15K, we can do one that will be just a tick better. Still pretty darn reliable - maybe two full years between overhauls, and still very low upkeep. This engine features mostly just some head work and a little more compression, and we feel that it will be FULLY competitive on paved and dirt tracks of 1/3 mile or less. This engine is halfway down the slippery slope. slide all the way to the bottom and we have....

OR..... Somebody send me a check for $50,000.00 and I'll build you a 400 HP slice of hell that will manage to get itself banned from every track in the country or absolutely kill Midget racing for good - one or the other.

The point I'm trying to make here is that with this engine (and others like it) we have a rare opportunity to start with a clean sheet of paper, and for a change, to make technology our slave instead of the other way around. It won't be easy to find ways to make this fit in with the existing inventory but on the other hand, its not really THAT hard, and I'm not liking the alternative. The hardest part is making the decision to do it, to GET STARTED.

Finally, I want to make it clear that I have no personal agenda here. I'm tired of people accusing me of trying to turn Midget racing into a spec program, or that I'm trying to corner the market, or that my products are somehow bad for the sport. The Focus program was a spec program because that is the product USAC and Ford asked me to produce, and thats what I did - it was my job. I also happened to agree with the concept, at least I did at the beginning. If somebody wants to build up a 'one design' class around only the ECOtec, I will happily sell them the engines. If someone wants to race one with BCRA or POWRi or whomever, I will gladly sell them an engine. I built one this summer for a Bonneville salt flats car. I'm doing one now for a coast gaurd prototype vessel. Just today I made a deal to do one for a hot rod guy from Canada. In this economy, if you come to me with money, the answer is YES.

But, I love Midget racing. I wouldn't walk across the street to see stock cars or drag cars. I MIGHT walk across to see Sprinters (if they are on dirt, and the fishing is no good). I've been doing this for a while now and have what I believe are some well informed opinions about what is best for the sport. My advice in that area is free, and it's totally optional. I've learned that most people in this sport don't want any advice - especially the ones who need it the most.

The RRE ECOtec takes advantage of state of the art electronic engine management strategies to produce power in ways that are simply not possibe from any traditional Midget engine, even one that has been retrofitted with an EFI manifold. We are the first company to offer an engine of this type for Midget racing, but you all need to understand that this type of engine is now the industry standard for virtually every form of 4 cylinder racing EXCEPT Midgets. We may be the first, but surely we won't be the last. Take a look around the racing industry. The future is here, now. Our choices are to get on board or get our butts run over.

Keith Iaia
Revolution Racing Engines
805-238-3930