[DAD]

Originally Posted by buckshot3448 like someone said its about the haves vs the have not. thats pretty much the truth. everyone on the bored is running gas and doesnt want to swtich over. theyve been struggling with car count avg around 12 and they just eliminated more cars. we bought a car to run with them and dont plan on switching to run with them for 2012. we now have 2 cars to run and are forming a series in illinois thats going to be non wing. if anyone running alcohol or gas is more then welcome to come. we will all be running the same weight no matter what you run.

WHAT I HAVE ALWAYS SAID "COMPETITION MAKE THINGS BETTER" Keeps people on their toes. When we fall back to the good old days nothing happens, when we compete things have to change and usually for the better. Racing is compeating we should love it.

You can race them with your added weight and still do pretty good you got to race a little harder though and keep the momentum up.

Good luck with your new club, They sure bounce a lot higher when you take the wings off.

[minisprint#4]

I think they should leave the motors totally stock. If they are stock than it will see weather you can set your car up and drive it without spending all that money on a motor that lasts about three races.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by minisprint#4 I think they should leave the motors totally stock. If they are stock than it will see weather you can set your car up and drive it without spending all that money on a motor that lasts about three races.

The sad part is the better your car is set up the more you need menthanol. I have been racing these things for a long time. The guy out there coasting through the turns Is not going to build up a lot of heat. The guy with the hammer down most of the time and up aganist the rev limitter is going to probably boil most of his coolant out. I know I spent a ton of money on radiators rad boxes and fans.

The problem is I have spent years learning about set up and I'm still not worth a dime without my adjustable shocks. What I need is a class in Karl Kinser's racecar and track adjustments.

I bought a jar of CSHUMAN TRACTION CONTROL for my driver and that helped a lot.

You will always be learning every race. Stock motors are fine but if you want them to live You have to change fueling around even for petro. We dont run our motors like they are on a bike. We might run 2 or 3 minutes wide open they dont do that in motorcycles. It requires a little more to do this. thus the pc or more fuel pres or both.
I wish things was easy.

[buckshot3448]

Yea dad they do it pretty hard with out the wings but there alot more fun to drive. Puts it more in the drivers hands. We're hoping we can venture out some more this year to Indiana and MO.
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[DAD]

Yeh, they really bounce hard. I have been thinking about a little crush box to put on top of my car in place of the wing to act like a smart wall. usually after that first bounce things cool down.

[openwheel44]

Tell us more about this new group of non-winged Lightning sprints or whatever in Illinois. Anything like the OMMS group that is in Missouri? Their deal seemed pretty fair if you stay on 1/4 mile tracks. Run what ya brung with a 40 minimum RR. Use it in the heat and feature. Basic midget or upright Lighting Sprints. What you guys got planned? I might be interested in traveling to a race or two. Wanted to hit a few Illinois Lightning Sprint races next year but that ain't gonna happen now. Not with the stupid rules they put in place. Wish them the best but I will be shocked if their plan doesn't fail in the long run..........

You're right Dad......run the guts out of them and they blow. They just blow faster if you do it with gas. That is if you run them hard....

Another vote for BAN GAS, Unsafe......

[buckshot3448]

Originally Posted by openwheel44 Tell us more about this new group of non-winged Lightning sprints or whatever in Illinois. Anything like the OMMS group that is in Missouri? Their deal seemed pretty fair if you stay on 1/4 mile tracks. Run what ya brung with a 40 minimum RR. Use it in the heat and feature. Basic midget or upright Lighting Sprints. What you guys got planned? I might be interested in traveling to a race or two. Wanted to hit a few Illinois Lightning Sprint races next year but that ain't gonna happen now. Not with the stupid rules they put in place. Wish them the best but I will be shocked if their plan doesn't fail in the long run.......... You're right Dad......run the guts out of them and they blow. They just blow faster if you do it with gas. That is if you run them hard.... Another vote for BAN GAS, Unsafe......

openwheel where gonna be running at spring creek speedway in macomb, IL. Its gonna be a all non wing series with chain driven mini sprints and midgets running 1000cc motors must have have tranny and clutch to run. we wont have any cars that need to be pushed off. Everyone will run 900lbs after race with driver on gas or alcohol its doesnt matter what fuel you run. there was talk of no zx12 motors but i dont know if thats going to be put in place or not. There is no tire rule you can run what you want on all 4 corners. We are looking at getting a guranteed purse of $300 to win ( not set in stone yet more to come later). This class is starting to form nicely with a mix of both types of cars. You can follow the series along at imratqseries.com or contact Tracy Hull at 309-371-8986 for more info.

[SteveB31]

I have owned and raced lightning Sprints for 7 years now and have to put in my 2 cents. All in all this is a great discussion. Prior to the Tulsa rules for this year being posted, I was wondering how they would do those rules to attract the most cars,and not limit too many cars from coming. I was pleased that their rules were so simple. MKaybe that is waht we all need. Prior to our club meeting a few weeks ago, I made an excel spreadsheet of all the major lightning sprints rules to see how close they really are. I have two cars, and other then RR tires, I think I could run either car in any club in the USA. Now, in our club this year if 15 race features, we had 6 different winners. ALL 6 had bone stock motors. 2 of them on gas (one GSXR and one R1). Those 2 stock motors on gas one 3 races. Neither car had an overheating problem and we raced on some very warm evenings. Neither of those owners are planning on converting to achohol. Our weight rules are the same for every car. 950 without the wing and 975 with wings (we race 1/2 of our races with wings and 1/2 without wings. We averaged 17 cars per night and growing, because lightning sprints are still the best value in open wheel racing. We need to remember that. When I started 7 years ago we were all hopping up our 1200 cc motors to make more HP. Now, the new generation 1000cc motors ( of which I put in the new car I just built) are faster then all those old hopped up 1200s, and much more reliable. Noone in our club has felt the need to modify any of these new gen motors, as they are close to 200 hp stock, THAT is what make our type of car the best value in open wheel racing. IF you do blow up a motor, $1500-3500 and drop in a fresh motor. You can't get that in midgets, any sprints, or even IMCA modifieds. We need to rememeber that the reason we have and enjoy these lightning sprints is because we can afford to race them on a middle class budget. We have a good thing going in this division. We may not ever get all clubs to be on EXACTLY the same page, but I think we are close enough where I could race nearly anywhere. Too many rules can be bad.....but so can too few. Many wonder why not too many people travel a lot in lightning sprints- it is not the rules, it is the cost of traveling. If we could afford to travel 1000 miles to race with other clubs, we could afford a midget or sprint car. Most of us lightning sprint guys would LOVE to race with other clubs, but in reality it costs $1000 to Make any long trip, and most of us just cannot afford to travel that much- BECAUSE we are all middle class mostly non sponsered cars. Just my 2 cents!!! See ya in Tulsa!!!!!

[Quantrill]

The intent of the rule is being overlooked here. It is blatantly obvious that the alcohol weight rule is not intended to make it fair for the racers. The intent of rule is to create a perception. Apparently, low-budget prospective racers stay away from the class because they believe they can't be competitive based on their lack of funds. In an effort to market the class to these prospective racers it seems that the rule-makers desire to create a perception that they, the rule-makers, are on the side of the less fortunate.

This thing just keeps going like the energizer BUNNY


Just got confirmation that the ILSS is going to stick with 1000# for ALKY.

The problem I have with perceptions is it is a false opinion. As Stuarts of this sport it is our (which I include the race directors and board members in this) responsibility to educate the new potential racers on what is right and why this is a great sport to be involved in. But putting such an unfair weight penalty on any one portion of racers with out really addressing the final objective just mean your bias. And all this really has alterior motives. If this rule would have included everything from airbox, fuel rails, power commanders, after market fuel pumps, oil pans then I can see that they are trying to actually steer lighting sprints in a different direction. But as it is there not saving the new guy any money. They are just making sure there fast gas guys don't have to spend any more money to win. When in actuality most races last year if not all where won with a gas motor in the ILSS sereis. Just not the big one. And that has there GOAT!

Steve,, I think your weights are a little high but if your club is successful then who am I to say. But one thing that I like is your club DOES NOT pentilize for running methanol. This really is the only thing that seporates most clubs. Not chassis, motor,tires or anything else. Its weights.

[DAD]

Hi Mark.! I think their weight is a little low. When and if you ever grow up to be a big guy you will think their weight is a little low too. All of this stuff is relevent from each indivduals point of view. Skinny guys like low weights because they have never been big. Big guys like heavy weight because they feel out gunned by the little guy when they drop the green flag. People with no experience with methanol like petro because they have heard a bunch of old wives tailes about the complexity and cost of methanol conversions. Those people running methanol even if they went the high price way don't ever want to switch back to petro because it is so much better not really faster but better than petro.

Now here comes the poor old race director. He is getting an earfull from both sides of the story. He is d@mned if he does and d@mned if he doesn't. What he has to do is sit down and right a rule that makes boths sides glad or both sides mad. The glad part is impossible so he has to go for the mad rule. Hopefully he won't make too many people mad I think the IL. guy has made at least 3 people really mad that is too bad, but he is doing what he thinks is best for his people.

I think 25 or 30 lbs is a good number for methanol cars there is a little more torque up until max hp that does help getting off the turn and down the straight on a tight track.

Now for the weight thing. Weight makes a big difference the first 300 feet of a race. To compesate for this my driver has become a very good speed shifter, starting one gear down from everyone else and shifting going into turn 1. We learned this years ago when we were running a carb car aganist those old mechanical injected cars in centeral Ohio. We have always been a little on the heavy side for most groups but that has not hurt our feelings enough to keep us from running where we want to run.

Your car is plenty fast to carry a little more weight and race with the IL. people don't sweat it, go race with them if you run well that is a feather in your cap.

I have poasted my phone number on this board, I really don't much care for this computer talk. If you have questions about converting over to methanol or would like to pick my brain give me a call. I may bull a whole lot on this this board but I won't shoot bull on injection.
I may not be the smartest guy out there but, I have done a whole lot of reading on the subject, I did not spend much on changing over and I have out run a few of those high price glittering bull injectors, carrying a lot more weight. **************************************** Methanol is really better, when you switch you will wonder why you did not do it sooner and you will never want to switch back.

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