The Future of Midget Racing

dant · 2/12/09, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonr

I think that there is deffinitely a problem with the cost in midgets. However, no one really wants to admit to the answers. Everyone likes to run the USAC, Powri, midget week shows. Even if they can not really afford to.

If you look at late models, sprint cars and even modifieds. There is an "open" division and a "limited" division. The WOO have survived with more or less open rules. However, there are a lot of 360 and a lot of 305 series. The same with Late models and modifieds.

Would competitors support a midget class with a spec engine, spec tires and a weight rule? Would competiors support building a car that they know that they could compete with the national series. I know that I have supported many a 360 and 305 sprnt shows knowing that a 410 car could be second faster. But the limited classes have more cars, more passing and a lot of times better racing.

Thought thats what Ford Focus was all about...

racephoto1 · 2/12/09, 10:46 PM

Yeah, I also thought focus racing was for that, and at one time it really was.

To save money is open the tire deal to everybody, just make the durometer readings the same on the tires. Monopoly only benefits the supplier, it really doesn't benefit anyone else.If the company doing the monopoly wasn't making money, there wouldn't be a kickback.

As for motors, there are a ton of things you can do. Hard tires, narrower wheels and tires. If you can't put it to the ground, it isn't needed. Less horsepower.

Regulate injector size,You limit the amount of air in a motor, you also limit horsepower. These two fixes are cheap and easy. You could do these on your existing parts. You would only spend money on rubber, and you have to buy anyway.

The hardest part is finding the willingness to take the first step.

PARKS · 2/12/09, 10:54 PM

I think there is probably a good amount of cars just sitting for lack of funds. Running a "support class" with spec tires and or sealed motors would probably generate some new interest. I just wonder what it will do to the current national type midgets counts at the same track.

DonMoore10 · 2/12/09, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racephoto1

The hardest part is finding the willingness to take the first step.

The only way anything is going to change is for the competitors to apply some kind of pressure to USAC, POWRi etc. That could be in the form of a boycott, organized type union, sponsors, fans or other means. Apparently BMARA is making some changes for the better. I'll be interested to see what takes place with that group.

What really needs to happen is for everybody to sit down with a clean sheet of paper and build a new program from the ground up. Toss out all the monopoly nonsense, kickbacks, political allegiance etc etc and put together a midget program that is practical and logical for all... NOT JUST FOR THE MULTI MILLIONAIRE owners. Cut the price of tires in half. If American Racer can sell midget tires for around $80, then the purple tire company can do the same. The majority of car owners are being ripped off big time with this scam.

There also needs to be random engine checks at all midget races. If the orgs are not going to check engines and enforce the rules, you might as well throw the rule book out and have a free for all. I haven't heard of a midget engine being checked in years. When the cats away, the mice will play.

pgray · 2/12/09, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonMoore10

.... I'm just one voice of about that many who are willing to share thoughts from a car owners standpoint on here.

Any intelligent debate of " cost issues " pertinent to Midget Racing today would have to conclude that the position taken and expressed by Don Moore is an accurate argument to those issues where some cost containment could be realized.

Don Moore just might be the only active Midget Owner today willing to take this argument to the media of a public message board.

I know many Midget Owners that would see no purpose in a public debate of their concerns and among those with no dog in the fight. In a recent discussion one such owner said that he had never heard of IndianaOpenWheel web site. Another has questioned why anyone would solicit the opinions of those who post anonymously. He continued to make his point in saying , " that would be like inviting the local pizza guy to our meeting as if his opinion would be important !".

Don , I'm not sure that your concerns ( and mine ) will ever be properly addressed in airing the laundry on this board ...but I appreciate your spirit in the line of fire ! :thumb

:Steer

DonMoore10 · 2/13/09, 12:10 AM

You'd be surprised at how many and who read this message board.

6157 · 2/13/09, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonMoore10

You'd be surprised at how many and who read this message board.

I wouldn't. According to you everyone who bats a contradictory word at you is a USAC employee.

I know how it is, Don. They're just all out to get you. I'll never let them get to you, big guy

polecar · 2/13/09, 1:35 AM

to me what has to be done is drastically cut cubic inches. back when the vw's came out they were 122cu.in. and they kicked a$$. clubs were formed to keep the vw's out. today the vw's are 165 cu in's and nobody wants one. by cutting the cu in's, and with today's technology more production based parts could be use instead of the purpose built parts in today's motor. if people wanted to have motors built by pink, gaerte, etc. great. if i could build a motor in my basement that may run just as good for less money i would be peeing in my pants. the main point is production parts instead of purpose built parts, that's where the big savings would be.
i know everyone would have to buy a new motor that's why it won't work. but all current motors would need is a crank and rods and away we go. i know to simple.

carrytheleftfront · 2/13/09, 2:05 AM

There also needs to be random engine checks at all midget races. If the orgs are not going to check engines and enforce the rules, you might as well throw the rule book out and have a free for all. I haven't heard of a midget engine being checked in years. When the cats away, the mice will play.

Not pumping engines? Here you go blowing more smoke up everyones :moon:.. I have spent many nights well after trailers have pulled out tearing down our midget engines to have them pump... Cars I have worked on have been pumped on the 1/4 miles all the way up to the miles. We were even pumped at Speedrome. So this bull crap "might as well through rule book out because they dont check engines" is another one of your rediculous, non sense, making crap up posts. Maybe if you would come run with a national traveling series and quit your darn b!t(hing maybe one day you will get your engine pumped...

But we all know that the engine in the race car doesnt matter... Its those toter homes that cost as much as a house that won that race...

But instead of being in the shop making your cars better you would rather spend your life typing on a computer about how the cost needs to be fixed...

MONEY DOES NOT WIN RACES.. LOOK AT BOBBY SANTOS, TANYA MENTGEN, BRIEN OLSEN.

I am not saying that motors are not important, BUT to win a race you must have a car that can run the entire distance. That doesnt come from money. That comes from maintenance and hard work in the race shop. After every race tearing the cars down cleaning them up, going over them with a fine tooth coumb to make sure all parts are in good condition.. Cleaning parts up and regreasing them..
Your car has to handle well too. A car set-up good can out perform a car with an expensive motor.. If you can drive your deeper into a corner, harder through the corner, and on the throttle earlier coming off, you will beat the so called expensive motors.. THE FASTEST CAR DOES NOT ALWAYS WIN THE RACE..

You want to get rid of the tire monopoly..OK. So lets say we bring american racer in and they give tires away.. people are still going to buy "PURPLE LABELS" because they want to run up front.. Maybe there is a reson why they are more expensive.. Tire testing, changing tires to make them better, the telemetry they put on the race cars at the tire test... Oh yea wait.. All that crap is free... i for got that..

Bob East might have backing and sponsorship... But has he always?? NO!!! How did he get sponsorship? Because he spent his life complaining about how expensive everything is and getting on a message board bashing everybody... I know if I had a multi million dollar company I am going to go online and find someone who spends there life saying things are too expensive.. I want them to represent my company on a national level.. NO.. Bob worked his @$$ off to win races and to get sponsorships... Still with the sponsorships you can find his crew members in the shop taking not the most expensive parts and doing the grunt work to lighten those parts to make them as affective if not more affective than the high dollar parts..

jdull99 · 2/13/09, 3:21 AM

Don,
Your the man! Pretty much the only car owner-able to attract top drivers-who is willing to post what can be improved about midget racing! Paul Gray, you took the words out of my mouth.

Numerous other threads have focused on schedules and what not, but I think if they were directed towards cost reducing efforts; many problems would be solved.

I know, I know-shame on me for posting on a message board instead of working at finding the money to race...what I wish people would realize is it is a lot easier to find $7500 (amount KO mentioned in recent SC@M article), than $40,000 for an engine. Yea, you can buy used, but as my efforts have proven; you get what you pay for. Also, it is my humble opinion, anything more than $10,000, should not be considered an "economy" engine.

As far as the tires, I think if those that have yet to; actually raced on the $80 American Racer, they would be surprised. The fans that are in the stands would more than welcome anything about the times that interested them-so why not a narrow tire? As far as the mentioned clubs that are working to curtail cost, you forgot Ozark, Don.

Now the problem is, just because cost could be reduced, doesn't mean all should be racing for less purse. I really do not think the fans in the stands will notice a difference. Actually, I think the closer we get back to "blue collar", the more connection they will have.

I really do not think anything (like $7500 engines) will be done anytime soon (like NOW), but SOMETHING to reduce costs would be helpful!

Jason Dull
815 494 6002
jdull99@hotmail.com
jasondull.com (For all the Racing News)

2/13/09, 1:35 AM	#58 Re: The Future of Midget Racing
polecar Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 153	to me what has to be done is drastically cut cubic inches. back when the vw's came out they were 122cu.in. and they kicked a$$. clubs were formed to keep the vw's out. today the vw's are 165 cu in's and nobody wants one. by cutting the cu in's, and with today's technology more production based parts could be use instead of the purpose built parts in today's motor. if people wanted to have motors built by pink, gaerte, etc. great. if i could build a motor in my basement that may run just as good for less money i would be peeing in my pants. the main point is production parts instead of purpose built parts, that's where the big savings would be. i know everyone would have to buy a new motor that's why it won't work. but all current motors would need is a crank and rods and away we go. i know to simple. _________________________________________________ Last edited by polecar; 2/13/09 at 1:56 AM.

2/12/09, 10:46 PM	#52 Re: The Future of Midget Racing
racephoto1 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,253	Yeah, I also thought focus racing was for that, and at one time it really was. To save money is open the tire deal to everybody, just make the durometer readings the same on the tires. Monopoly only benefits the supplier, it really doesn't benefit anyone else.If the company doing the monopoly wasn't making money, there wouldn't be a kickback. As for motors, there are a ton of things you can do. Hard tires, narrower wheels and tires. If you can't put it to the ground, it isn't needed. Less horsepower. Regulate injector size,You limit the amount of air in a motor, you also limit horsepower. These two fixes are cheap and easy. You could do these on your existing parts. You would only spend money on rubber, and you have to buy anyway. The hardest part is finding the willingness to take the first step.

2/12/09, 10:54 PM	#53 Re: The Future of Midget Racing
PARKS Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 63	I think there is probably a good amount of cars just sitting for lack of funds. Running a "support class" with spec tires and or sealed motors would probably generate some new interest. I just wonder what it will do to the current national type midgets counts at the same track.

2/13/09, 12:10 AM	#56 Re: The Future of Midget Racing
DonMoore10 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,474	You'd be surprised at how many and who read this message board.

2/13/09, 2:05 AM	#59 Re: The Future of Midget Racing
carrytheleftfront Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 59	There also needs to be random engine checks at all midget races. If the orgs are not going to check engines and enforce the rules, you might as well throw the rule book out and have a free for all. I haven't heard of a midget engine being checked in years. When the cats away, the mice will play. Not pumping engines? Here you go blowing more smoke up everyones :moon:.. I have spent many nights well after trailers have pulled out tearing down our midget engines to have them pump... Cars I have worked on have been pumped on the 1/4 miles all the way up to the miles. We were even pumped at Speedrome. So this bull crap "might as well through rule book out because they dont check engines" is another one of your rediculous, non sense, making crap up posts. Maybe if you would come run with a national traveling series and quit your darn b!t(hing maybe one day you will get your engine pumped... But we all know that the engine in the race car doesnt matter... Its those toter homes that cost as much as a house that won that race... But instead of being in the shop making your cars better you would rather spend your life typing on a computer about how the cost needs to be fixed... MONEY DOES NOT WIN RACES.. LOOK AT BOBBY SANTOS, TANYA MENTGEN, BRIEN OLSEN. I am not saying that motors are not important, BUT to win a race you must have a car that can run the entire distance. That doesnt come from money. That comes from maintenance and hard work in the race shop. After every race tearing the cars down cleaning them up, going over them with a fine tooth coumb to make sure all parts are in good condition.. Cleaning parts up and regreasing them.. Your car has to handle well too. A car set-up good can out perform a car with an expensive motor.. If you can drive your deeper into a corner, harder through the corner, and on the throttle earlier coming off, you will beat the so called expensive motors.. THE FASTEST CAR DOES NOT ALWAYS WIN THE RACE.. You want to get rid of the tire monopoly..OK. So lets say we bring american racer in and they give tires away.. people are still going to buy "PURPLE LABELS" because they want to run up front.. Maybe there is a reson why they are more expensive.. Tire testing, changing tires to make them better, the telemetry they put on the race cars at the tire test... Oh yea wait.. All that crap is free... i for got that.. Bob East might have backing and sponsorship... But has he always?? NO!!! How did he get sponsorship? Because he spent his life complaining about how expensive everything is and getting on a message board bashing everybody... I know if I had a multi million dollar company I am going to go online and find someone who spends there life saying things are too expensive.. I want them to represent my company on a national level.. NO.. Bob worked his @$$ off to win races and to get sponsorships... Still with the sponsorships you can find his crew members in the shop taking not the most expensive parts and doing the grunt work to lighten those parts to make them as affective if not more affective than the high dollar parts..

2/13/09, 3:21 AM	#60 Re: The Future of Midget Racing
jdull99 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,819	Don, Your the man! Pretty much the only car owner-able to attract top drivers-who is willing to post what can be improved about midget racing! Paul Gray, you took the words out of my mouth. Numerous other threads have focused on schedules and what not, but I think if they were directed towards cost reducing efforts; many problems would be solved. I know, I know-shame on me for posting on a message board instead of working at finding the money to race...what I wish people would realize is it is a lot easier to find $7500 (amount KO mentioned in recent SC@M article), than $40,000 for an engine. Yea, you can buy used, but as my efforts have proven; you get what you pay for. Also, it is my humble opinion, anything more than $10,000, should not be considered an "economy" engine. As far as the tires, I think if those that have yet to; actually raced on the $80 American Racer, they would be surprised. The fans that are in the stands would more than welcome anything about the times that interested them-so why not a narrow tire? As far as the mentioned clubs that are working to curtail cost, you forgot Ozark, Don. Now the problem is, just because cost could be reduced, doesn't mean all should be racing for less purse. I really do not think the fans in the stands will notice a difference. Actually, I think the closer we get back to "blue collar", the more connection they will have. I really do not think anything (like $7500 engines) will be done anytime soon (like NOW), but SOMETHING to reduce costs would be helpful! Jason Dull 815 494 6002 jdull99@hotmail.com jasondull.com (For all the Racing News)