[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by racefan20 As a matter of fact if you durometer each time a car goes on the track(except hot laps) then it shouldn't matter what they put on their tires as long as they test within the specified range of hardness/softness. No testing required.

This is EXACTLY what we do as a series...black and white!

7.1 Tires: Any tire or manufacture/brand is allowed, must DUROMOTOR RR-45 LR40 before and after race...there will be a 10 minute cool down period if tire punches below benchmark. If either LR or RR is/are below by just 1 point you are DQed. No Sample will be taken and all rear tires will be checked before every race heat/B/A mains, in the event of qualifying they will be checked before and after.

[Hamby454]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester Good, so know nothings like me aren't muddying the water. The thing that bothers me most about the whole thing is you hear for years and from many teams, We want to race for more purse. Well by the rush to judgement and for whatever reason they chose to do that And they can, their car, their $$$ behind it. It jeopardizes most of the higher purse races out there today.

Not sure you’re claiming I’m muddying the water or not. However I won’t take offense to it. Like I’ve said from the beginning is all the rumors,muddying of water, or whatever else you want to call it could easily be avoided. That indeed was brought on by usac. They didn’t hesitate to throw Learys name out when he got hit, or ruble, or brackett, etc. but this time it’s all different. Doesn’t really make sense. No matter if they are getting more testing done or not there’s no reason to protect teams, names, etc. especially since according to usac all findings are now within standard. Furthermore it’s a bit odd that essentially they are pinning this on faulty test from a lab. Is this the same lab that has gotten other people dq’Ed? What lab is it? What other labs were used? What labs will they be using in the future? That should all be common knowledge to everyone. Especially any and all competitors or those looking to compete. But again, nothing mentioned. So basically the long and short of it is, the lab sucks so we’re going to throw out these samples and use the other labs test but moving forward we’ll use the lab that failed again cause it’s cheaper until the same situation comes back up. Logic. As for the meeting it’s a licensed team owner meeting only. Let’s be serious how many people is that? 20, maybe. How many of those will actually show up? Your likely looking at a meeting involving 10 maybe 15 people. If Keith kunz, Swanson, and other teams who frequent usac shows are willing to boycott I’d be willing to bet there’s reason for speculation on the matter.

[Charles Nungester]

No, not calling you muddying the water. The durometer everything was the best IDEA YET.

But without facts, Here's what I come up with.

There's been tires doped forever and people feel that because some were caught at Xtreme that it was happening at USAC as well.

That USAC did have four of five teams come back with a anomaly that didn't match the base testing sample provided by Hoosier.

That the anomaly was the exact same in all four teams

That one of the tires were purchased at the track.

That the anomaly was not any of the known tire doping compound

That only one of three labs found this anomaly and a outside tire manufacturer agreed there was no anomaly

That many teams feel USAC is protecting a couple teams from punishment they deserve.

That such protected teams reportedly threatened to leave or sue. (Reportedly)

That if such lab came back wrong, That a couple teams that have been *BUSTED* before are in question as well.

I as much as anyone want them to show up to the meeting, get their questions and evidence they need and decide from there.

I as much as anyone want to see both USAC and Xtreme do well. to me it's not one vs the other. It's for the growth and betterment of the sport.

I as much as anyone want to see all the teams race.

I as much as anyone want to see the best team and driver win.

The end.

[sp6967]

does the "c" in usac stand for club or clowns?

[dustbowl]

Durometer isn’t accurate isn’t even close. Would be a poor way to try to enforce anything. All depends on how much pressure is applied during the test and the person reading it. Not only that but chemicals react different at certain temperatures.

[flagboy55]

Thanks for correcting me Hamby. If so many owners are upset about it l would expect them to show. Let’s see the evidence USAC is going to show. The problem is, like other things in the country, it could be proven fact and some people will still not choose to believe it.

[Hamby454]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester No, not calling you muddying the water. The durometer everything was the best IDEA YET. But without facts, Here's what I come up with. There's been tires doped forever and people feel that because some were caught at Xtreme that it was happening at USAC as well. That USAC did have four of five teams come back with a anomaly that didn't match the base testing sample provided by Hoosier. That the anomaly was the exact same in all four teams That one of the tires were purchased at the track. That the anomaly was not any of the known tire doping compound That only one of three labs found this anomaly and a outside tire manufacturer agreed there was no anomaly That many teams feel USAC is protecting a couple teams from punishment they deserve. That such protected teams reportedly threatened to leave or sue. (Reportedly) That if such lab came back wrong, That a couple teams that have been *BUSTED* before are in question as well. I as much as anyone want them to show up to the meeting, get their questions and evidence they need and decide from there. I as much as anyone want to see both USAC and Xtreme do well. to me it's not one vs the other. It's for the growth and betterment of the sport. I as much as anyone want to see all the teams race. I as much as anyone want to see the best team and driver win. The end.

I agree with some of this. Some not so much. From my understanding the samples sent to the 2 other labs were “new” samples acquired after the cars had returned to their shops. Again I don’t know all the details and only those involved do. The fact that so many questions are being unanswered is what’s bringing the rumors to this. If indeed these new samples were acquired from the teams shop and not acquired at the track they should not matter at all. At the track everyone can see the samples being taken. From the shop who can determine if it’s the same tire?? To many uncertainties to not place blame on usac, unfortunately. As it paints a dark cloud not only over them but the sport as a whole as they have essentially been the face of non wing racing, well forever. It’s all truly sad.

[Charles Nungester]

Originally Posted by Hamby454 I agree with some of this. Some not so much. From my understanding the samples sent to the 2 other labs were “new” samples acquired after the cars had returned to their shops. Again I don’t know all the details and only those involved do. The fact that so many questions are being unanswered is what’s bringing the rumors to this. If indeed these new samples were acquired from the teams shop and not acquired at the track they should not matter at all. At the track everyone can see the samples being taken. From the shop who can determine if it’s the same tire?? To many uncertainties to not place blame on usac, unfortunately. As it paints a dark cloud not only over them but the sport as a whole as they have essentially been the face of non wing racing, well forever. It’s all truly sad.

Yes but if the second samples taken showed the exact same results for all four teams. Not from one, But three labs. This proves the first samples and lab findings FALSE.

[Hamby454]

Originally Posted by flagboy55 Thanks for correcting me Hamby. If so many owners are upset about it l would expect them to show. Let’s see the evidence USAC is going to show. The problem is, like other things in the country, it could be proven fact and some people will still not choose to believe it.

It’s a meeting that will likely have less than 20 people at it. I only know of a few facts. Usac hid names(not their standard way of doing things), usac claims the lab is at fault(doesn’t release said lab or even that they will be using a different lab in the future, honestly it reads as though the will continue with this lab until another issue comes up and then handle it the same way they did this one, yikes), usac claims it’s an anomaly well Hoosier knows what’s in their tires, anything in said tires, even if off in amounts wouldn’t show up in a test as it’s a chemical known to be in the tire(it’s not unrealistic that all tires used the same prep and method), there are plenty more “uncertainties” that aren’t adding up but if people such as kunz, Swanson, Amati, and other teams are boycotting(remember these are folks at the track with the series on a regular basis with more knowledge than any of us) then there is reason to believe the “facts” you believe usac is going to deliver to those 15 owners at this meeting may amount to a pile of manure. I won’t forego this any longer as I’ve said my piece. Seems some people just want to love usac. More power to them. Hell I love their product. But this, this was handled as poorly as possible by a sanctioning body and before it’s all said and done the true “facts” will come to light, whatever they may be.

[chrismattlin]

I've kept my opinions out of this thread until there was some (any) type of resolution. And even though I'm not sure I'd consider this resolved, I'll say this: there is a self-made man who has lived in the USAC world for longer than I've been alive. He is one of the most respected car owners in all of American motorsports with corporate backing from the #9 company on the Fortune 500 list. In my many encounters with this man, he has exhibited the utmost integrity, honesty, and respect. This man of high esteem is not buying what USAC is selling, to the point that he seems disgusted. This man's name is Keith Kunz and I have zero reasons to doubt him.