[Midget98]

If the WRG really wanted to take over the top level of non-wing sprint car racing, all they would have to do is make their non wing shows a point paying part of the World of Outlaws Sprint Car Title. Only time will tell how this all plays out, but from the way it sounds, this is merely a side show to their current product.

[Rhody]

Ah the old "USAC guys show the wing guys how to get it done" fantasy. Which ignores that many of the drivers held up as examples started in wing cars, went to USAC, dominated, and returned to wing cars. Don't forget Brad Sweet, you guys had him to for a while, so beat your chest that a non wing guy is a 3 time WoO champion. The non wing superiority crowd are as bad as the old Posse crowd on hoseheads.

[Stevensville Mike]

Originally Posted by flagboy55 So, what has the World of Outlaws done to make racing better?

I was thinking that one over for awhile, 55 my friend.

Racing aside, they PROMOTED it better. Rev Jim is kind of saying that, too (Right, Jim?). But it really has NOTHING to do with the racing product in itself.

Let's roll back to the early, early 80s when ESPN came around. They picked up the sports that the networks would not bother with: NCAA Basketball (a huge boon for them), the NHL, and racing - NASCAR and USAC. NASCAR prospered and took off like a rocket while USAC started to, but then plateaued out. Subsequently NASCAR went on to WTBS, TNN, etc., while USAC was pretty much given the ESPN arse for things like baseball.

WoO came about on the air on TNN in the early 90s. Remember the Slick 50 Sprint Car World Series from Manzanita and then Canyon Raceway in Arizona? During the Winter. What a brainstorm! All NASCAR fans were looking for something to watch and they got that. WoO got their product in the spotlight until they were tossed by TNN for NASCAR's "Supertruck Series" and NASCAR's $$$. <--- Always remember that link - NASCAR and $$$.

Winged cars have HUGE places to affix sponsorship logos. I can remember in the 90s you had Kinser in the Valvoline, then Quaker State car, Sammy ran the Hooters banner, Haud the Pennzoil banner, Andy Hillenburg STP, and Freddie Raemer in the Apple car. No one had any idea WHAT the Apple car was, but you could sure see it on your TV at all times when he was racing it in Arizona. USAC non-wing cars do not have that much signage space. A disadvantage. But your new(er) fans need that sponsor/car colors/driver link to stay in touch with what they are watching. Don't even get me going on the number of black non-wing sprints and midgets. I'd be more than happy to donate some paint to some of the tracks.

So, WoO just got onboard at the right time with the right look.

Now..... let's push the "I Believe Button" and take MAV-TV, Flo, and DirtVision and toss them into the mix back in the late 80s, early-mid 90s to give the viewing audience a look at all of the aspects of racing - both types of sprints, late models, dirt, asphalt, etc. The racing situation may have been SOOOOOO different with all of that at the fingertips of us fans and who knows WHO would have prospered. With this scenario, at least non-wing sprints would have had a little footing to show on the TV as the WoO did in real 90s world. TNN only had so much time for sprints, and WoO took it all. USAC was left outside looking in.

We can all agree that the non-wings are great. I'll watch both. It is/was all in the promotion of the product, though in my opinion.

I've gone on long enough. I hope everyone on the forum is in good spirits, good health, and good states of minds. I have brats to grill and cheap beers to drink on my day off here. Looking forward to the Chili Bowl.

[cornerthree]

Don't mind double file restarts. Hate straight up starts. That's why I don't attend their shows.

[captrat]

Originally Posted by cornerthree Don't mind double file restarts. Hate straight up starts. That's why I don't attend their shows.

Double file restarts are like getting a pass to cut in line at the ticket booth, or ignoring the merge, lane ends due to construction sign.

[jonboat15]

Originally Posted by cornerthree Don't mind double file restarts. Hate straight up starts. That's why I don't attend their shows.

Ignoring that lane ends merge deal really tries my patience, that's why I drive a beater tank. post was a reply to captrat

[Charles Nungester]

Originally Posted by Rhody Ah the old "USAC guys show the wing guys how to get it done" fantasy. Which ignores that many of the drivers held up as examples started in wing cars, went to USAC, dominated, and returned to wing cars. Don't forget Brad Sweet, you guys had him to for a while, so beat your chest that a non wing guy is a 3 time WoO champion. The non wing superiority crowd are as bad as the old Posse crowd on hoseheads.

Way to twist what I said to strictly Wing NW and that we hate one another. By that measure I guess them thousands of laps in quarter midgets and karts were winged too?

Im saying the USAC has launched careers and if WoO is the Career, So be it. But so many (With tons of Non wing and midget experience) went on to even bigger things and some beat the WoO at their own game. Blaney is the only one I can think of that was full time WoO that had major success elsewhere. I know Gravel ran a crown race and did well. I just like divirsity. Always said a good caution free Winged race is as good as any other. But the heats with exceptions are ten cars qualifying with little chance at advancing.

I used to eat it up. Went to about ten kings royals, the Doty's went to attica, freemont. limaland. Ohio Sprint week. Eldora anniversary races. HBO's. Then it struck me, Speed isn't everything. I've been to dozens of USAC shows where the third row won a heat or finished second with many of them being three of the four heats that had that happen.

Others said, WoO is marketed better. Guess so, A third of the cost of a show is marketing. USAC maybe 10%

[BrentTFunk]

Be careful what you wish for. NASCAR was a semi regional series in the 80's. It got big in the 90's. It became the place to be. Prices went up, forcing out grass root fans. Think of all the tracks that used to run the Outlaws. They got priced out. As far as making the sport more popular, I don't think short track racing will ever be as popular as it was during the post WWII era. Midgets were racing in front of 100,000 people at places like the Rose Bowl and Soldier field. Kokomo back then would draw 17,000 for races. It was cheap entertainment, drivers made good money and raced 7 nights a week in many areas. Be careful what you wish for.

[oldfan49]

Before the Outlaws we could watch sprint cars 3 nights a weeklocally with B mains and pick our tracks. Then promoters never knew if cars would show up or go chase the golden carrot the outlaws dangled. The cost skyrocketed because of the Outlaws and locals couldn't compete or afford it but by the time they figured it out the promoters had given up on them and weekly racing was dead for years. Then came the 360's to keep the cars local. And before long the ASCS came into being and it all started over again. Then came 305's...........
A local promoter took a chance and started runing non wing cars. Parks cars got pulled out and B mains were the norm. Then came WAR and a war developed. And again weekly racing disapeared and many who were fullfilling a bucket list dream got priced out.
And now we have the local USAC group and we wait to see who survives.

As has been said "be careful what you wish for"

[deadhorse30]

Originally Posted by Midget98 If the WRG really wanted to take over the top level of non-wing sprint car racing, all they would have to do is make their non wing shows a point paying part of the World of Outlaws Sprint Car Title. Only time will tell how this all plays out, but from the way it sounds, this is merely a side show to their current product.

I don't understand how adding them to the WoO championship helps anyone? This conversation is very interesting. I love sprint car racing, all types, but the non-wing crowd doesn't seem to like anything. You have the most successful race touring group/promotion in the country getting into your sport and people seem upset. Honestly USAC hasn't done anything to improve their status in decades, just status quo. It's still a regional series based out of Indiana. In both situations with WoO coming into non-wing racing and non-wing drivers leaving for tin tops the track promoters need to be looked at. Indiana tracks don't seem to want and step up for big time races. Whenever the wings go into Indiana it's almost always someone leasing the track for a show. The promoters don't seem to want to have big time races.