[opnwhlmnd]

It's a good system for the fans. A driver has to hustle every time on the track all program. At some point in the program a driver has to earn his qualifying time back. There are penalties if it doesn't get earned back in a heat race.

There is also a reward sitting there to win your heat race to make up for a bad time trial which is fair because of the track usually changing and slowing down from the 1st guy out to the last guy out.

It's really not that confusing. Watch Richie's race results on here and look at qualifying time and where they started the A-main. If you can't figure out why they started in that position just ask on here and we will explain why.

[S2K]

As a fan, I think the format leaves a lot to be desired.

1. If you are the fastest qualifier, your reward is starting sixth, with five of the fastest cars in the field in front of you. Seems to me like multiple times this year, Bacon has had quick time, and looked to me liked the fastest/best car in the field, but starting sixth on a track that's tough to pass on has been too much of a handicap. At least a dash with the six invert cars would give another opportunity to maybe move up a row, and would give fans more racing.

2. Unless I'm misunderstanding, the only thing that matters in the heat races is either winning or transferring. There is no difference between 2nd-4th or 5th on back. If something happens in qualifying and you start at the back of your heat race, you can race hard and pass some good cars to get all the way to fifth, but it means nothing because you revert back to qualifying times to line up the C/B (e.g. Cottle at Gas City the other night). Seems like the Outlaw/All Star format where the heat race finish lines up the A/B makes more sense to me.

3. Why only 22 cars to start the feature? Seems like other major touring series/events that I follow start 24.

[kb78]

Originally Posted by S2K As a fan, I think the format leaves a lot to be desired. 1. If you are the fastest qualifier, your reward is starting sixth, with five of the fastest cars in the field in front of you. Seems to me like multiple times this year, Bacon has had quick time, and looked to me liked the fastest/best car in the field, but starting sixth on a track that's tough to pass on has been too much of a handicap. At least a dash with the six invert cars would give another opportunity to maybe move up a row, and would give fans more racing. 2. Unless I'm misunderstanding, the only thing that matters in the heat races is either winning or transferring. There is no difference between 2nd-4th or 5th on back. If something happens in qualifying and you start at the back of your heat race, you can race hard and pass some good cars to get all the way to fifth, but it means nothing because you revert back to qualifying times to line up the C/B (e.g. Cottle at Gas City the other night). Seems like the Outlaw/All Star format where the heat race finish lines up the A/B makes more sense to me. 3. Why only 22 cars to start the feature? Seems like other major touring series/events that I follow start 24.

USAC is my Favorite format of the traveling series that I have seen.

1.The fastest qualifier starting sixth insures that there should be someone chasing the front row guys down, it is true that Brady has had to start behind some good cars this year but it is also true that he has been 5th or 6th quick and he starts up front.
I don't care for dashes, it just gives the guys starting up front the last look at the track and it is one more chance to junk your car for no money.

2.I also like the way USAC does the heat except I totally agree with you on a guy coming from deep, if you finish the heat in position 5-9 then you should go to the B and not the C. If you are going to line up the features by the way they finish the heats though I think you would have to do away with the invert in the heats to be fair and that doesn't make for good racing. The All-Stars and Outlaws have changed their dash format over and over through the years to try and get a balance of fairness and a decent show and they have got to the point where half of the field is in the dash now.

3. 22 is a good number, 4 from each heat and 6 from the B. I don't want to get to the point where you are taking half of the B-main cars.

I like USAC's format because there are so many good cars in the field and I think you have to have some emphasis on going hard whenever you are on the track and yet not penalize the fast cars too much.

I also very much like the way BOSS does things for the varying quality of cars they get throughout the field, you can make up for a bad redraw if you are good enough.

[S2K]

Originally Posted by kb78 USAC is my Favorite format of the traveling series that I have seen. 1.The fastest qualifier starting sixth insures that there should be someone chasing the front row guys down, it is true that Brady has had to start behind some good cars this year but it is also true that he has been 5th or 6th quick and he starts up front. I don't care for dashes, it just gives the guys starting up front the last look at the track and it is one more chance to junk your car for no money. 2.I also like the way USAC does the heat except I totally agree with you on a guy coming from deep, if you finish the heat in position 5-9 then you should go to the B and not the C. If you are going to line up the features by the way they finish the heats though I think you would have to do away with the invert in the heats to be fair and that doesn't make for good racing. The All-Stars and Outlaws have changed their dash format over and over through the years to try and get a balance of fairness and a decent show and they have got to the point where half of the field is in the dash now. 3. 22 is a good number, 4 from each heat and 6 from the B. I don't want to get to the point where you are taking half of the B-main cars. I like USAC's format because there are so many good cars in the field and I think you have to have some emphasis on going hard whenever you are on the track and yet not penalize the fast cars too much. I also very much like the way BOSS does things for the varying quality of cars they get throughout the field, you can make up for a bad redraw if you are good enough.

Fair points. There are pluses and minuses to all of the systems.

I just think if you are going to put as much emphasis on qualifying as the USAC format does, to not give the fastest qualifier any opportunity to start better than sixth is somewhat of a penalty to the quick timer.

I can totally understand that dashes add cost for competitors; was speaking only as a fan on that one.

I do agree that the All Stars seem to put too many cars in the dash at times, but I do think they are making an effort to make both qualifying and heat race finish mean something.

The Outlaw format is the most straightforward and easy to follow in my opinion. I can get the criticism that putting the fast qualifiers up front in the heats may hurt the racing in the heats, so that’s a downside. But, the format does have the advantage of consistently rewarding the fastest cars for every position they pick up throughout the night, in my opinion.

[kb78]

Wow!! We agreed on a couple things and disagreed on another couple things and we didn't even call each other names or disrespect one another, I hope they don't kick us off.

See you at the track sometime.

[oldfan49]

do they award championship points in the heat races? in the B or C mains?

Honestly I don'y remember seeing anyone acting satisfied to just hang in 4th in a heat. With the format the races are too balanced and it's too easy to drop 1 or 2 spots in one turn. There are no weak heats with this format.

[fourteen fan]

I like for the most part the all stars format. Qualifying against those in your heat, invert 4. Not a fan of the dash(s)

[revjimk]

No system is gonna be perfect unless you start them all side by side, which is impossible
Someone said "Unless I'm misunderstanding, the only thing that matters in the heat races is either winning or transferring. There is no difference between 2nd-4th or 5th on back."
.... thats what bugs me. I think they should make heats, B & C more meaningful. B is already lined up by qualifying time, why reward them twice lining up the A? Qualifiers from the B should start behind Heat qualifiers, & then line up according to B finish

[oldfan49]

Originally Posted by oldfan49 do they award championship points in the heat races? in the B or C mains? Honestly I don'y remember seeing anyone acting satisfied to just hang in 4th in a heat. With the format the races are too balanced and it's too easy to drop 1 or 2 spots in one turn. There are no weak heats with this format.

They do award points in heats so it's just not a matter of finishing 1st or 4th

https://www.facebook.com/usacracing/...15365795152492

[cl124]

Originally Posted by revjimk No system is gonna be perfect unless you start them all side by side, which is impossible Someone said "Unless I'm misunderstanding, the only thing that matters in the heat races is either winning or transferring. There is no difference between 2nd-4th or 5th on back." .... thats what bugs me. I think they should make heats, B & C more meaningful. B is already lined up by qualifying time, why reward them twice lining up the A? Qualifiers from the B should start behind Heat qualifiers, & then line up according to B finish

I like this idea. Think it’s a good mix. My point was proven majorly last night as I had 2 good friends who came into town from a good ways to see their first USAC race. Tried explaining system to them a couple times and I believe all I did was confuse them more each time.