[Roy Bleckert]

Something to consider , On the Left Coast we have division split/sub classed Open Wheel Racing to death , what has been the result, smaller car counts & less fans in the stands, let's not do the same thing over & over & hope for a different result . with the template of the BCRA rule you can start the process of unifying Midgets across the country , under the BCRA spec a Ford Duratec/Mazada K 60 degree V6 DOHC & a Honda J V6 SOHC would be legal as would be a gazillion 4 bangers on EFI that could run with current Midget equip @ less cost for the avg Sat Night Racer, ya @ the National events the best Teams & Drivers usually win as it should be, notwithstanding that lightning does strike & the locals have won also. The car counts will be higher @ the local tracks because the engine costs will be much less so more will participate & the National events will pick up cars as more local cars will be @ those events .

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Roy Bleckert Something to consider , On the Left Coast we have division split/sub classed Open Wheel Racing to death , what has been the result, smaller car counts & less fans in the stands, let's not do the same thing over & over & hope for a different result . with the template of the BCRA rule you can start the process of unifying Midgets across the country , under the BCRA spec a Ford Duratec/Mazada K 60 degree V6 DOHC & a Honda J V6 SOHC would be legal as would be a gazillion 4 bangers on EFI that could run with current Midget equip @ less cost for the avg Sat Night Racer, ya @ the National events the best Teams & Drivers usually win as it should be, notwithstanding that lightning does strike & the locals have won also. The car counts will be higher @ the local tracks because the engine costs will be much less so more will participate & the National events will pick up cars as more local cars will be @ those events .

Roy

I agree 100% with the BCRA engine rules as written. Sometimes in old age we get a dose of tunnel vision if you know what i mean. A a country western song writer once said you guys have hit on the perfect set of Midget Rules. A part that allows guys with older engine packages to come in and race>>>A part that addresses the newer engines coming out. and a part that would also allow the new stuff to race should they want to. If I could find an old "V6 Potter" car laying around it would be legal with you guys not bad at all.

My big concern with both the Division II rules by Wayne and the other side of the coin the rules like Ray 3 is wanting to endorse is that either side takes into account all of the older Iron laying around. Florida may not have too much of this stuff but I bet Indiana Ohio, Illinois and on the Left Coast could field a bunch of these older cars and probably even have a few left over to sell down south.

These cars are down on average 25% on Horsepower at least from the National Midgets>>> 400HP vs 300HP. There would probably be another 25% difference between the cars racing together in this class if done your BCRA rules 300HP vs 225HP.

The National guys run on 12 inch tread right rears. That probably works out to a contact area of 48 sq inches on the ground. If a tire maker could be convinced to build a couple of tires sizes 82" X 10" and 84" X 10". They probably already have the molds laying around somewhere. That would cut the contact patch down to about 40 sq inches or by 22%. We already have the ability to break loose a 12" wide tire. The National Midget guys can break loose that tire much much easier than we can. Those guys are drivers and can use all the traction they have available however. I'm thinking that 22% would put all of these lower class midgets on a more even playing field and the this tire size would also go a long way in taking the advantage away from the National Midgets racer that would decide to drop down a class to race in this new class.

In all sincerity there are probably only 30 cars and crews or less in the National Midgets Division that would concern me when racing against your BCRA cars as the rules exist today and I think that tire would take away a lot of their advantage.

If a guy decides he wants to try out the National guys all he has to do is switch the Right rear tire and wheel and upon finding that extra 22% tire on the ground will make him think that he had died and gone to heaven and he will be much more capable of getting all the traction available out of that bigger tire.


Honest Dad himself

[Roy Bleckert]

@ DAD your starting to put the pieces together put Midgets back under one umbrella , the Honda 2.4 K engine will go 370 hp on Kinslers which the head is not designed for & does not like fuel being dumped in it like the Mississippi river like current Midget head designs are made for, take that same Honda put it on EFI & it will run very competitively with the current stuff on most tracks (as would a lot of current stock block EFI engines), I encourage every one to not focus so much on peak HP ratings as that is not the whole story in racing , although big peak HP # sells lots of engines or psyches out a lot of racers !

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Roy Bleckert @ DAD your starting to put the pieces together put Midgets back under one umbrella , the Honda 2.4 K engine will go 370 hp on Kinslers which the head is not designed for & does not like fuel being dumped in it like the Mississippi river like current Midget head designs are made for, take that same Honda put it on EFI & it will run very competitively with the current stuff on most tracks (as would a lot of current stock block EFI engines), I encourage every one to not focus so much on peak HP ratings as that is not the whole story in racing , although big peak HP # sells lots of engines or psyches out a lot of racers !

Roy

Tim Engler also makes an EFI injection for his throttle bodies, and the nice thing about EFI is you can also put those "shower injectors in the air box " kind of like built in inner cooler.

I have an old saying Roy "You can always tell the cheaters>>>they are the guys back in the pack buzzing their tires off".

Honest Dad himself

[copper14]

I don't run midgets now but did for several years.we ran 1 car with the quad 4 and 1 with a regular engine.the problem with the quad 4 was the computer and the ecm system. it was nearly impossible to trouble shoot engine problems and ed Wilson was no help.ed would help certain people only. we even had a dealership mechanic on the team and he couldn't troubleshoot the motor.thats what worries me if I got into midgets again. the d 2 cars or sportsman cars as we called them all have computers and ecms.people will start hopping up the motors and pretty soon a honda will cost what an esslinger costs now.dont have a magic solution wish I did.love racing open wheel cars.have a 410 now.same thing going on with 410s.305s cost what a good 410 costs already.then your 305 needs a special rear that runs midget gears.i don't know where it ends.good luck every body.you need it.

[DAD]

Copper

If you were racing a quad 4 it was probably a few years ago. The horsepower of these little engines is controlled by the head and intake port in particular. The operation of the motor is controlled by the ECM. Because of the complexity of an automible and the strict EPA requirements placed on the operation of the car on the road a stock ECM is not the best choice without a re-flash and then it still contains a lot of functions not needed by a race car for a race car. Newer ECM use a Mass air flow sensor for fuel calculations most race motors rely on a MAP (Manifold Absolute pressure) sensor for fuel control a less precise but much easier device to work with. Removing some devices can cause a computer to go into limp mode and prevent optimum performance. I can't think of anything in an old Quad 4 that would cause you problems, but I also don't know what modifications you performed to the engine.

A better answer would be a stand alone aftermarket ECM. The Old Wives Tales start talking about the $4000.00 Ecm's and people get scared. There are small guys out there now building computers that could be made to work just fine with a generic map that would get the racer close for less than a $1500.00 (less than the cost of cams and valve components) with a wiring harness that would be pretty much plug and play when these things take off. Once the ECM is dialed in you forget it, it does all the thinking for you.

Honest Dad himself

[victory_rising99]

Ray 3 check your PM