[smokintires]

Well shoot maybe we can see eye-to-eye on some things..... Now if only you could drill that into these "d2" guys heads..... Carbon wont make a damn bit of difference as long as the car makes weight.... Sure we could argue then you could put the weight to the left, etc etc..... That's all good and fine- if they want to run carbon they either need to strap the lead to their seat (like you stated with lead sheet) or run a steal motorplate which is 30 pounds all by itself. There, problem solved- everyones happy.

[DAD]

Smoke

I have been buttin heads with Wayne for several years now. He is a good guy >>> I have never met him in person but through our correspondence I know he is all for the racer. Money spent on race cars is always a difficult subject because no-body wants any body including the government telling them what they can do with their money. I am more of a guide line type guy, rules are too easy to bend. I went to a demolition derby last week end. The rule book or guide lines were 6 sentences long. I'll be darned a guy showed up violating two of those rules and wanted to fight because they did not allow him to run. I guess racers are red necks whatever they race.

I have always wanted a fiberglass guy to make a plug of a tail tank so he could make a carbon fiber skin to dress up that dull black plastic. Wouldn't make you lighter but it sure would make you look racy.

Wane's reason for posting was to get Ideas, not fights, all we can do is express our concerns and reasons for concern let him think about it and make the rules that we all race by. Benevolent Dictator's are the best way to run a sanctioning body by far.

Honest Dad himself

[dirtrack]

At 1125 lbs, you should be able to build a good car without any Ti or carbon. Don't need to outlaw it because they won't gain a advantage. Rules need to be simple. Maybe you should use POWRI national rules with only the engine specs being different.

Already starting to see some pricey engine builds. Can spend a lot money without porting or Ti engine components. Hope I'm wrong but, don't think dangling the "low buck" carrot is going work in the near future. You can already see who has a stock long block and who doesn't. Cost will determine the growth of this class.

[xoxide]

To some, ti or carbon isn't about the lightweight advantage.... Some people just live having nice parts.

Grade 8 bolts are bulky and ugly. We had a surplus of ti bolts from our aprintcar days so a lot of those got put on our midgets just because we had them, ttheyre stronger, and they look nicer then some bulky gold grade 8 bolt.

I've been harping on Wayne for carbon for months now... again- because I like the way it looks. Luckily we met a mutual ground for that subject but if he allowed it, I'd run it- not for the weight advantage since I'm already right at 1125 but for the looks.

[Wayne Davis]

my PM box was full ...have cleared it and can now receive private messages

[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by xoxide Grade 8 bolts are bulky and ugly. We had a surplus of ti bolts from our sprintcar days so a lot of those got put on our midgets just because we had them, they're stronger, and they look nicer then some bulky gold grade 8 bolt. I've been harping on Wayne for carbon for months now... again- because I like the way it looks. Luckily we met a mutual ground for that subject but if he allowed it, I'd run it- not for the weight advantage since I'm already right at 1125 but for the looks.

If you did not have a surplus of Ti bolts on hand, but had to spend a $1000.00 to have them would you have bought the Ti or use it to purchase tires for the season....or maybe put it back in case you crashed?

[xoxide]

Certain bolts yes, others no. All the radius rod/shock spuds /half nuts I'd spend the money on again in an instant. Random bolts likeneerf bar bolts, probably not.

If I remember right the whole ti spud kit for radius rods is only 1-200 which isn't bad in the grand scheme of things. I enjoy buying cool parts after I have the essentials.. Anodized nuts, ti bolts, etc.... No different than modifying my street car to my likings.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by xoxide To some, ti or carbon isn't about the lightweight advantage.... Some people just live having nice parts. Grade 8 bolts are bulky and ugly. We had a surplus of ti bolts from our aprintcar days so a lot of those got put on our midgets just because we had them, ttheyre stronger, and they look nicer then some bulky gold grade 8 bolt. I've been harping on Wayne for carbon for months now... again- because I like the way it looks. Luckily we met a mutual ground for that subject but if he allowed it, I'd run it- not for the weight advantage since I'm already right at 1125 but for the looks.

Xoxide

You ain't seen my grade 8 bolts after about 15 minutes in my lathe (a 1/4 inch hole all the way through it machined bevel for rod end side of the head for clearance and an under cut on the head to cut down on weight and make it look trick). The problem is a lot of guys race out of magazine articles and their back pocket. Sometimes a little ingenuity goes a long way in racing. Wayne's heart is in the right place but it makes him come across as a bleeding heart liberal. Let the guys with more money than brains run what they want (make them put the weight in the most un helpful place) . The next season some good old boy will get a heck of a deal on that race car that did not perform up to the rich guys expectations and he can move on to another "Hobby".

Wayne most of them guys don't plan on crashing>>>in fact If my memory hasn't failed me they are usually the guys that complain about some aggressive young kid when he taps them to move them over to get by them. Perhaps a better racing Hobby for a lot of guys might be Vintage Racing.

Honest Dad himself

[Andrew S. Quinn]

I'm amazed at the number of teams that dont have any machine tools. Been in a number of shops over the years and lucky to see a drill press in most of them.

I just drilled out some grade 8 bolts for a friend recently in my lathe. Had fun chatting while drilling /turning them.They asked how much I paid for the lathe. I paid a lot less than most people would think,and add tooling as I find it cheap

[buhrracing]

Has the thought ever occurred that the grade 8 bolt design was engineered to keep all material in tact to become a grade 8 strength? Im no engineer, but i would say its strength was just weekend in my opinion. buying Ti bolts are specific to the application and designed to be light weight with same strength characteristic. Now you just went into the Grey Area of the rule book about the actual design of the bolt and the rule Grade 8 only..lol

I dont really care if people are allowed to use Ti or not, people are going to spend money in other areas they could have spent on Ti so it balances out. For instance, im 40lbs over weight, instead of being able to buy Ti bolts to reduce weight im just going to buy a light weight seat, lighter steering wheel, lightw weight motor plate. So as you can see i spent the same amount actually more just in a different place. As long as there is a min weight rule, who cares. So either way your spending money.