[DAD]

Bill

I really like the idea of wingless Sportsman Midgets I think they may just take off.

Maybe we could relegate it to pre 2004 that was when the Horsepower wars started that we are the beneficiary of today. Also brought about because of Kawasaki.

Honest Dad himself

[Bradleyracing86]

Who isn't naturally aspirated?
Bill your doing that thing were you take a good turnout and try to make everyone look like a-holes...

Do you not think a guy with knobs in the car has a direct advantage over the guy who has the only tie down he owns on the LR.

> electric wing motor is $100
> adjustable shocks $1200

You have to remember you can't stop people from spending money you can only limit how much that money actually matters in what we are doing.

Every year a different manufacture will come out with something "new" or better and the rest will follow, the 2 year window in the rules allows for that..

Once feared engines:
Cross plane R1= Turd by standards
The first X plane R1 Allen bought was $3800.. Now they the same as all the other R1s..

BMW, we have witnessed this engine, not overly impressed, btw I have stripped magnesium wheel centers with a 600...


As far as a sportsman midget is concerned you can say sportsman midget as much as you want.... People will still call it a Minisprint.

The idea would never work because it opens too many doors for smart guys like you who should own a National midget or a sprint car.

How's the ford coming along?

[openwheel44]

Uh Dad...........You don't have to ask Phil anything for approval. As we have told you numerous times.....the "National Rules" that were agreed on involved members from five central United States Lightning Sprint groups. Not just Mark and I. This is about the 3rd or 4th time you have reminded me about the naturally aspirated clause in the rules. The rules update this winter will address that. Fortunately, you are the only one with an issue about this......everyone else knows the intent. I would imagine if you came rolling into a race with a turbo'd or force induction motor, I wouldn't be the only one pitchin' a hiss fit.

[DAD]

Andy

MMSA is doing great. You guys have worked your butt's off and it shows. My big gripe is in rush for a national program you guys added a lot of stuff you shouldn't have and left a bunch of stuff you shouldn't have. The MMSA did not need a national rule book to be successful it was so on it's own right. The National group needed MMSA because of their success. When racing with the MMSA no one said anything about Engler Injection it was accepted. If that is your route to happiness so be it. No body said anything about suspension adjustments either, different approach to the same problem. Like someone once said "Just trying to be faster than you".

Now MALS people thought that mechanical injection was the worst thing since "Ebola" and crusaded to ban them from their organization. While taking up for mechanical injection on their web site Mark and I developed our relationship. You guys buy into the program and all of a sudden Tim is a sponsor and mechanical injection is a OK. If you guys want to put a $1200.00 mechanical injection on your car that is fine with me. I realize that you see it as a piece of Jewelery and it makes your "MINI SPRINT look more like a Midget which it is after all any how. The right rear shock on our car was on it when you guys started racing, it cost a whopping $700.00 back then which was a heck of a lot of money, but over the years it has been depreciated off of the books. That is a good investment in my books.

We do not need to be following their rules, they need to be following ours. Their 7 pages of rules is a far cry from the 1 page rule that you threw away to gain favor with them. How many MALS cars have attended any of our races? Is $700.00 to win going to encourage someone to travel 1500 miles to race.

Stay local do what is best for the local racers, Invite Focus, Kenyons, and Echo-tecs to race with us, find several tracks central to your membership>>>> go out and have fun.

Honest Dad himself

[Jensen44]

I do not own a mini sprint or a midget. I race sprint cars. However, I have a 12 year old son who loves racing and also have an 11 year old nephew who races 1/4 midgets. Both of which will eventually be driving something in the near future. You guys seem really passionate and also seem like you really want to grow your segment of open wheel racing. However, the way this class is being presented on IOW right now is not helping your cause or in anyway pursuading anyone to come join you. It sounds like from the outside that you guys have a bunch of rules, spend way too much money, and someone is always trying to cheat their way in to victory lane. Please don't bash me for this post. I just want you guys to sit back, think about what a prospective car owner/driver would think about these posts if he's considering jumping into your class. It screams, stay away from lightning sprints, or midgets, or mini sprints or whatever your calling them these days. I know from watching them that that is not the case. They put on a great show and look like a blast to drive. So maybe take a second and think about the perception of the posts. Just my opinion, not fact, not pointing fingers...just an outsiders view.

[Bradleyracing86]

Originally Posted by DAD Andy MMSA is doing great. You guys have worked your butt's off and it shows. My big gripe is in rush for a national program you guys added a lot of stuff you shouldn't have and left a bunch of stuff you shouldn't have. The MMSA did not need a national rule book to be successful it was so on it's own right. The National group needed MMSA because of their success. When racing with the MMSA no one said anything about Engler Injection it was accepted. If that is your route to happiness so be it. No body said anything about suspension adjustments either, different approach to the same problem. Like someone once said "Just trying to be faster than you". Now MALS people thought that mechanical injection was the worst thing since "Ebola" and crusaded to ban them from their organization. While taking up for mechanical injection on their web site Mark and I developed our relationship. You guys buy into the program and all of a sudden Tim is a sponsor and mechanical injection is a OK. If you guys want to put a $1200.00 mechanical injection on your car that is fine with me. I realize that you see it as a piece of Jewelery and it makes your "MINI SPRINT look more like a Midget which it is after all any how. The right rear shock on our car was on it when you guys started racing, it cost a whopping $700.00 back then which was a heck of a lot of money, but over the years it has been depreciated off of the books. That is a good investment in my books. We do not need to be following their rules, they need to be following ours. Their 7 pages of rules is a far cry from the 1 page rule that you threw away to gain favor with them. How many MALS cars have attended any of our races? Is $700.00 to win going to encourage someone to travel 1500 miles to race. Stay local do what is best for the local racers, Invite Focus, Kenyons, and Echo-tecs to race with us, find several tracks central to your membership>>>> go out and have fun. Honest Dad himself

I think what we are doing is working just fine, and all though these National Rules have maybe kept a few from coming out, they are far outnumbered by new faces. As long as I'm helping with this deal I will be standing with the National partners.. MALS, ILSS in 2015, and everyone else that agreed to those rules.

One thing is for certain. Not everyone will always be happy.

[thunderracing91]

Originally Posted by Jensen44 I do not own a mini sprint or a midget. I race sprint cars. However, I have a 12 year old son who loves racing and also have an 11 year old nephew who races 1/4 midgets. Both of which will eventually be driving something in the near future. You guys seem really passionate and also seem like you really want to grow your segment of open wheel racing. However, the way this class is being presented on IOW right now is not helping your cause or in anyway pursuading anyone to come join you. It sounds like from the outside that you guys have a bunch of rules, spend way too much money, and someone is always trying to cheat their way in to victory lane. Please don't bash me for this post. I just want you guys to sit back, think about what a prospective car owner/driver would think about these posts if he's considering jumping into your class. It screams, stay away from lightning sprints, or midgets, or mini sprints or whatever your calling them these days. I know from watching them that that is not the case. They put on a great show and look like a blast to drive. So maybe take a second and think about the perception of the posts. Just my opinion, not fact, not pointing fingers...just an outsiders view.

You wouldn't be dissapointed. Just get a good chassis and a stock engine from Andy Bradley. Leave all this drama and pot stirring behind ya and go race. Best bang for your buck.

[openwheel44]

Jensen44........Really do appreciate your input and I can totally understand what you are saying. However.....Lightning Sprints/Minisprints are an excellent class. Please don't let the banter on this board persuade you otherwise. I have raced about every open wheel class there is over the years and can honestly this class is the most economical for the return of racing entertainment I have experienced. Every group I have been around has been friendly, competitive and simply fun to race with. Don't let a few complainers convince you otherwise.

So you understand what has happened here..........a group of us got together last winter from the various midwestern organizations to discuss simple rules to help contain costs and create closer competition. Basically get the motor costs under control. So far......it looks like it has helped tremendously. Competition couldn't be any better where these rules are applied. Costs have become even more realistic and affordable as compared to other classes. Speeds are up. Safety is paramount. Life is good. The rule book that seems to be the problem for some is quite simple. Is it perfect? Some evidently say no. It's a work in progress. A lot of it is the typical boiler plate stuff for procedures, safety. Actual technical stuff boils down to a some simple chassis and motor rules. All contrived to contain costs but not to sacrifice speed. The main thing.......5 groups basically agreed to the structure and decided to implement the basics with the agreement to discuss possible adjustments at a later date if need be. It's a group effort that seems to be working as hoped.

Trust me...........this class needed this. Costs were spiraling, motors were getting out of control and groups were going in different directions on certain rules and areas. The bottom line.......car counts are up and fun meter is pegging out. I think most will agree..........this year has been an improvement across the board thanks to the central region groups getting together and coming up with what we have to date.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Jensen44 I do not own a mini sprint or a midget. I race sprint cars. However, I have a 12 year old son who loves racing and also have an 11 year old nephew who races 1/4 midgets. Both of which will eventually be driving something in the near future. You guys seem really passionate and also seem like you really want to grow your segment of open wheel racing. However, the way this class is being presented on IOW right now is not helping your cause or in anyway pursuading anyone to come join you. It sounds like from the outside that you guys have a bunch of rules, spend way too much money, and someone is always trying to cheat their way in to victory lane. Please don't bash me for this post. I just want you guys to sit back, think about what a prospective car owner/driver would think about these posts if he's considering jumping into your class. It screams, stay away from lightning sprints, or midgets, or mini sprints or whatever your calling them these days. I know from watching them that that is not the case. They put on a great show and look like a blast to drive. So maybe take a second and think about the perception of the posts. Just my opinion, not fact, not pointing fingers...just an outsiders view.

Jensen

You have several paths after 1/4 midgets or just starting out. Go Karts not cheap as some believe, and dangerous in my opinion, Sidewinders (over sized go karts with roll bars, and Mini Sprints>Lightning Sprints>and here I will change the name again Sportsman Midgets. Mini Sprints are changing>> new blood and management has taken over. We have been racing these things for about 20 something years now and still thoroughly enjoy it. In the pits I am quite as a church mouse, but When things don't strike me quite right I have been know to vent my spleen here on the IOW.

Our group the MMSA has always raced in a small geographic section of Indiana and Ohio. Our new leadership has branched out to a larger area and adopted a new set of National rules. Needless to say I am the only unhappy camper or at least the only one that sometimes speaks up. I try to keep positive but sometime interlopers chime in and I kind of go off.

Several years ago I got off on a deal about how much I appreciated competition not only in racing but life in general, that is what keeps us at the top of our game and makes things better.

Our cars have always been inexpensive and very fast, the reason is instead of putting thousands of dollars into our engines when one let go we go to a salvage yard and buy one that is newer and faster. Thank you Bike Makers!!!! Now all of a sudden people get into the sport and see nothing but doom and gloom with the introduction of a new motor technology. They want to spend thousands of dollars keeping the old motors running much like the T/Q's have done for many years now.

What I have tried to express is a dissatisfaction in a bunch of what I consider to be un needed and over specific rules and the fear of the progression of technology in future engine designs along with the use of ******** to make these rules.

Beleave it or not we do get along pretty good at the race track, like in a good marriage we leave all of this discussion at home in the recliner.

Andy: I am still working on my "Car Builder-Engine Man" on the Lincoln Motor deal> wish me luck.

Honest Dad himself

[TQ29m]

DAD, lets make a deal, you say nothing more about TQ's, and I'll never say another word about whatever it is you're talking about. Deal? Bob