[Gregg]

I will gladly take my wristband and wait for an opportune time to use it, knowing Dave did not have to do this...but he did and I thank him.

[Eric Smith]

At least you guys make me chuckle. Sorry I got a whole bunch of your panties in a bunch.

The only thing I asked about Indiana was what happened with the money, since similar situations have arisen in the state in which I have attempted to race. I also stated my opinion on something. That's still allowed. As are your rebuttals.

Can anyone tell me what happened with the money from whatever race it was that I originally asked about? Did the purse get paid or did the pit passes get refunded or something else? Either I missed it or the 5 pages of "replies" failed to address the original question.

[Charles Nungester]

Watch out Billy P. we're going for the record!

The money as it were, goes to pay the purse of the show you eventually use the rain check for as you are not a paying customer that night. Someone seems to think a promoter gets rich off a rain out. I seen a article somewhere about six months ago that explained everything very clearly, That everybody loses. If someone can post the link to that story it'd be much appreciated it explains things almost down to the nitty gritty.

[BrentTFunk]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester Watch out Billy P. we're going for the record! The money as it were, goes to pay the purse of the show you eventually use the rain check for as you are not a paying customer that night. Someone seems to think a promoter gets rich off a rain out. I seen a article somewhere about six months ago that explained everything very clearly, That everybody loses. If someone can post the link to that story it'd be much appreciated it explains things almost down to the nitty gritty.

Exactly. you get in free at the when you use your wristband, and the purse gets paid that night. Just wondering were you even there Sunday night?

[Charles Nungester]

Brent, I was not, My car blew up on 275 on the way there. However I had the distinct feeling that question wasn't directed at me.

[Spi-nex]

Eric Smith,
You should really spend some time on the other side of the fence and then you may understand why promoters make the decisions they make. It's not always cut and dry the way fans and drivers like to think it is.

[Jonr]

This post is a little dated (2010) but it gives a good behind the scene look at promoting the race track. The author of this post spent several years working at the right hand man to a couple of promoters in the DFW area. He has a very good understanding of the financials of a track.

Postby ReggieF » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:04 pm

Now let's talk about a rainout.

Insurance - (Note the insurance has to be in the mail before the race night for an established promoter. A new promoter often must have his check to the insurance company before the date of the races)

When you call the rainout is important.

No one in the pits - your entire premium can be applied to the next race night

Open the pit gate - 25 to 30% of the premium forfeit

Hot Laps - 50-65% of the premium forfeit

Any race takes a green flag - 100% of the premium forfeit

C-Stand - about 25-35% of your concession stand supplies for the night cannot be saved and reused. Throw them out or eat a lot of burgers.

Staff costs - most track staff get paid nothing on a rainout, maybe half pay if the races have started.

Security, ambulance and often c-stand workers get paid for the hours worked.
Depending upon the track and locations - you may have to pay a full night ambulance fee. That was the requirement at NTMS which was expensive. Once the ambulance left Tyler for NTMS - we had to pay a minimum 8 hours at $85 per hour.

At a minimum - 40% of the race night costs without the purse is what a rainout costs you. That does not include any weekly costs which are almost all wasted.

You also loose between 3 and 5% of your potential yearly income with a rainout. If you get six rainouts per season - your yearly gross have been cut by 20 to 30%.

You can never make up that income.

The absolute worst for a promoter is to have a rainout after the races have started. The next week the pit gate income will likely be below $700 as everyone comes back with their armbands from the previous week. Probably half the front gate crowd will get in free.

So you've taken two nights income and barely get enough for one good night. You have your good race night full expenses and 30% of the previous rainout night expenses.

Money loser anyway you look at it.

As the posted stated, the promoter is going to open his track twice. When it opens the track twice there are things that he is going to have to pay twice, but he is only going to be able to charge once. A rain out is a money losing proposition. This poster also had a lot of other posts about what it takes to make money as a promoter. The entire thread is at http://www.elbowsup.com/viewtopic.ph...31610&start=10

[Charles Nungester]

Thats the article I was talking about Jonr, TYVM.
Sums it up,

[dirtracer74]

Eric Smith, for some reason, likes to make these types of post on about any message board. The subject may vary, but anything to get a rise out of people I guess.

Fact is, I know what track and event he is talking about. I am not sure what the issue was. When the cancellation was announced, our team went back to the pit booth with our wrist bands, and receipt, and was offered a full refund. No questions asked. We were not asked to sign anything other than the standard pit area waiver. Last year, it was the same deal. Engines were fired to put heat in the motors, and the sprint car teams were again offered a full refund. Earlier this year for a winged show, they actually rescheduled the event for August. They gave the teams a choice in a refund, or keeping your wrist bands to the rescheduled event.

I am confused about what Eric Smith thinks the track should have done? Sounds like the track went a step above what most tracks would do in my opinion. But, if a track does keep the money, and tells folks to keep their wrist bands, that money goes towards the expenses for that next event.

Another question seemed to be what happens to the money if heat races are completed, and the track does not issue refunds. Well, most tracks will run double features the next time that they can. If not, then most will offer a partial payout. But, the expenses for the track does not change. They still have to pay their normal bills such as staff wages, insurance, advertising, and everything else that goes with it. About the only thing they get a break on is the purse, which is a small percentage of a nights expenses in most cases.

But, my question is this. If you are unhappy with the way a track conducts their business, why do you continue to go back? I was more than happy they way Merritt Speedway handled the situation. Well, other than the fact they allowed it to rain I guess. Frankly, I am not sure why some of the tracks even book special shows anymore with all the whining it involves. Some tracks in Michigan are not even booking sprint car shows anymore, because of stuff like this.

[kidrock]

Originally Posted by Jonr This post is a little dated (2010) but it gives a good behind the scene look at promoting the race track. The author of this post spent several years working at the right hand man to a couple of promoters in the DFW area. He has a very good understanding of the financials of a track. Postby ReggieF » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:04 pm Now let's talk about a rainout. Insurance - (Note the insurance has to be in the mail before the race night for an established promoter. A new promoter often must have his check to the insurance company before the date of the races) When you call the rainout is important. No one in the pits - your entire premium can be applied to the next race night Open the pit gate - 25 to 30% of the premium forfeit Hot Laps - 50-65% of the premium forfeit Any race takes a green flag - 100% of the premium forfeit C-Stand - about 25-35% of your concession stand supplies for the night cannot be saved and reused. Throw them out or eat a lot of burgers. Staff costs - most track staff get paid nothing on a rainout, maybe half pay if the races have started. Security, ambulance and often c-stand workers get paid for the hours worked. Depending upon the track and locations - you may have to pay a full night ambulance fee. That was the requirement at NTMS which was expensive. Once the ambulance left Tyler for NTMS - we had to pay a minimum 8 hours at $85 per hour. At a minimum - 40% of the race night costs without the purse is what a rainout costs you. That does not include any weekly costs which are almost all wasted. You also loose between 3 and 5% of your potential yearly income with a rainout. If you get six rainouts per season - your yearly gross have been cut by 20 to 30%. You can never make up that income. The absolute worst for a promoter is to have a rainout after the races have started. The next week the pit gate income will likely be below $700 as everyone comes back with their armbands from the previous week. Probably half the front gate crowd will get in free. So you've taken two nights income and barely get enough for one good night. You have your good race night full expenses and 30% of the previous rainout night expenses. Money loser anyway you look at it. As the posted stated, the promoter is going to open his track twice. When it opens the track twice there are things that he is going to have to pay twice, but he is only going to be able to charge once. A rain out is a money losing proposition. This poster also had a lot of other posts about what it takes to make money as a promoter. The entire thread is at http://www.elbowsup.com/viewtopic.ph...31610&start=10

That's the chance a promoter chooses to take when he opens the gate for the year. If you don't have a good rainout policy you are only asking for trouble. Fans don't want to feel like the are being taken advantage of plain and simple and once they do guess what they will stop coming and then what do you have.