[PatrickMead#13]

What about going cheaper? Like a truck replacement 350 from jegs you can buy for $1900 and stick in there. I want to say its in the neighborhood of 250hp and 300fttq.

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[Tim]

So, what's the goal, here? Is there an issue with car count? It appeared to me that the car count, in Indiana at least, has been fairly healthy. And, I believe the reason still boils down to the fact that the racing in Indiana is almost exclusively non-wing, meaning that driver skill, setup skill, and things other than motor are the keys to being competitive. I know, and have helped, guys who "detune" their killer motors because they can't get the power hooked up. We applaud guys like Stanbrough (sp?) for their "throttle control" which, to me, is only another way of saying he's not able to use the power the motor can give him, so he controls the motor to get what he needs.

My point is this: If you can only get 400 HP to the ground, why do you think you have to have 800+HP? Crate engines, RaceSaver engines, Stock engines, etc. are all a way of controlling the engine costs but, as has been pointed out, the more rules there are the more important it is to have intelligent tech personnel and consistent rule enforcement. Nobody tried more valliantly than Sam Stockon to get a steel block series going in Indiana/Illinois and, for a time, the series had some success. But car count suffered because there just weren't enough steel block motors out there and folks in that area had aluminum blocks they could race at home, and against USAC when they came to town. Without cars the series died.

I guess what I'm getting to is this: I believe, if you outlaw downforce (and therefore drag), you can build a competitive motor for less than $7000, using some new and some very available used components and you can compete with the locals you're wanting to run with. I know we've been able to do that with the crap in the engine compartment that we've had to run over the years, which is precisely the reason I drive up from Houston, TX regularly to race vs. racing locally with the wing.

Tim Simmons

[TQ29m]

I agree with you Tim, a "spec" class, which is what this will be, will require too many headaches for promotors and track to police, than it would be worth, plus, you are open as far as you want to be, or your budget will allow, to build any engine config you want, as I learned a long time ago, it only pays so much, and if you can't afford to run with the big dogs, stay on the porch, or learn to accept what you get, if you aren't content with just just racing, and finishing where you finish, try fishing, by yourself, then no one will know how big that big bass really was. Very few can afford to race for a living, and even fewer in this economy, so man up, build yourself a good motor, from parts that fit your budget, and go race, load up, and go home, don't spend the rest of the night in tear down. I just talked to a guy who helps a late crate team, and he couldn't believe what was going on, he has been a crew chief for many years, and just recently kinda got back in, he was blown away, guys were openly, to a certain extent, not running gas, and no one seemed to care. JMHO Bob

[SamSr32]

Tim the steel block Series failed not because of enough steel block cars, but because people that owned them did not have the forseight and integrity to support what I was doing. The second reason it failed was because of my ignorance not to have the right heip, plus some unforseen circumstances stopped the Series. I beleive at this time of our economy this type thing is badly needed, but it takes a number of people that really are interested and will support this deal. It takes alot of effort and money to get anything new started. There are race people like myself that love to race sprint cars, but do not have the big bucks to compete with the majority of those running today. It takes people to join together for the fun of racing and I have many good ideas to make this work. Thanks for all the opinions on this site. Thanks, Sam Stockon Sr

[DaveP63]

Originally Posted by Tim So, what's the goal, here? Is there an issue with car count? It appeared to me that the car count, in Indiana at least, has been fairly healthy. And, I believe the reason still boils down to the fact that the racing in Indiana is almost exclusively non-wing, meaning that driver skill, setup skill, and things other than motor are the keys to being competitive. I know, and have helped, guys who "detune" their killer motors because they can't get the power hooked up. We applaud guys like Stanbrough (sp?) for their "throttle control" which, to me, is only another way of saying he's not able to use the power the motor can give him, so he controls the motor to get what he needs. My point is this: If you can only get 400 HP to the ground, why do you think you have to have 800+HP? Crate engines, RaceSaver engines, Stock engines, etc. are all a way of controlling the engine costs but, as has been pointed out, the more rules there are the more important it is to have intelligent tech personnel and consistent rule enforcement. Nobody tried more valliantly than Sam Stockon to get a steel block series going in Indiana/Illinois and, for a time, the series had some success. But car count suffered because there just weren't enough steel block motors out there and folks in that area had aluminum blocks they could race at home, and against USAC when they came to town. Without cars the series died. I guess what I'm getting to is this: I believe, if you outlaw downforce (and therefore drag), you can build a competitive motor for less than $7000, using some new and some very available used components and you can compete with the locals you're wanting to run with. I know we've been able to do that with the crap in the engine compartment that we've had to run over the years, which is precisely the reason I drive up from Houston, TX regularly to race vs. racing locally with the wing. Tim Simmons

The absolute best motor that we had while running P-ville was 650HP. It was hooked up all the time.