[Mud Packer]

Originally Posted by deannalynn I know I've been a smart@$$ to some other people who have complained about some things, but what did I say or do to become captain of the ***** squad?

The day you showed up on IOW with a chip on your shoulder and that freaking ATTITUDE!

[wtvwrocks]

Originally Posted by deannalynn With all due respect ma'am, how many men and women have died or been seriously injured at Wrigley field or any baseball or soccer stadium? Please don't compare racing to baseball, soccer, football, basketball, volleyball, billiards, darts, bowling or tennis. Thank you for your interest and have a nice day

**sigh** This is why I should have listened to my gut instinct which was to only post race updates and never get involved in these types of conversations.......

What was lost in translation or I failed to convey adequately was while "big" racing (including USAC) seems to be stuck on a hamster wheel, other sports have catapulted their following to capture new fans and build a stronger base for their future. Economics aside, the marketing visionaries haven't stepped up to showcase the sport in a way that this newer generation of potential fans would respond to.

The Cubs reference was in regards to all the bickering about why this track is terrible and how this driver has lost his touch etc.....just like my grandpa hates the Cubs some of these people are never going to like this particular track even if they paid the fans to come watch, or that particular driver even if they rescued orphans from burning buildings - I giggle because it's silly to argue about it.

Since I didn't even direct my post to you or even mention you - I don't see where anything I said compared racing (the actual sport) and it's inherent physical risks to soccer or baseball....if you read more closely you would see I was referring to the growth or lack thereof of the racing fan base - or the marketing. How did soccer (which was a virtual unknown in the US) explode and racing (which has deep roots) stay so stagnant?

My "interest" as you put it so nicely goes far deeper than most. I make it a conscious choice to not get on here and involve my personal relationships and feelings about what happens at a track because I know I probably couldn't be objective. I know at the end of the day some people aren't going to like certain drivers (including the one I live with) no matter what, and some are going to love them for that very same reason. I was not raised a race fan, in fact my dad only went to his first race ever a couple years ago. I babysat for Buddy Ingersoll's (former NHRA Modified World Champion) grandchildren as well as his son Mark Ingersoll (crew chief of Kurt Busch NHRA and J&J racing). I was an on track reporter for a short lived show that aired on ABC in the Paducah/Cape Girardeau market in the late 90's "Heartland Racer" working under Steve Vardell who had some success with ARCA. I have worked at TSS for over ten years as well as with MSCS, so yes, I've seen up close (probably more than most) what the risks are with this sport, in no way would I ever try to lessen the chances these drivers and crew members take every time they head to the track.

Sacha

[wtvwrocks]

Originally Posted by Jerry Shaw Sacha, The life blood of the scene in this state is and always has been the single car family team. Without them, the tracks would be hard pressed to bring these big shows (USAC. KISS. etc.) to their track, for all of us to see. And the economics for those teams has always been pretty simple. They're not going to make a profit and the best they can hope to do work their asses off in their day jobs to have enough money to run that week, without suffering a loss that will put them out for a long time. I had one uncle and his son that were pipe fitters and another that he and his son were boilermakers, working all week to make their weekend happen. Each knew that they didn't have the equipment to run with Bob Kinser, Chuck Amati, Dick Gaines, etc., so doing that wasn't a part of their expectation equation. Making the feature and holding their own was a successful evening. And they did this for years, with one uncle even joining the Vintage Car circuit after he retired. So, basically, a group of local racers who will work for free, only getting rewarded by their chance to compete, is what has always enabled the tracks to pull off this smoke-and-mirrors trick they do, in order to make this whole scene happen. I've seen three generations of Gentrys do it purely for the love of the sport. Three generations of Briscoes are similar, although Kevin was the rare exception in that he was often able to slay the giant. Two generations of Christians have had some success, too. The Spencers and Beseckers are two real good examples of what this is all about. I remember Kevin's last Sprint Week, when he broke his car at Bloomington (with help). Flipped his ass off at Putnamville, further damaging the chassis. Then a couple of days later, they showed up at Lawrenceburg with a different chassis with a huge band-aid on the side of the car (as a joke) and when you talked to him, all he could talk about was how thankful he was. Then, look at Josh Spencer. Those guys have been living on a shoestring for as long as they've been around. And that guy's walking around the track, talking to kids, doing stuff in the community, promoting charities, etc. He obviously relishes the role of being a Sprint Car Driver, instead of dwelling on what he DOES NOT have. And I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, because you see first-hand all the sacrifices Robert has to make, just to keep racing. Looking at it second-hand, it's even obvious from my point of view. I'm making this point just to say it's something that you just can't take the emotion out of it, because it's an emotion (their love for the sport) that makes the whole sport possible. Plus, the whole driver with the lower budget slaying the giant scenario possible, it adds another dynamic to the whole race fan experience. Everybody was pulling for Chase Stockon or when he was out front in a USAC race @ Haubstadt. Or Sciscoe @ Terre Haute. Or or Kenny Niflis, when he won the Sheldon Kinser Memorial. Or for Dickie, when he won USAC @ Putnamville. So, there's no real answer to what can be changed to make it economically viable to race sprint cars and midget, because it never really has been. Except for a few at the top. And I say a few, because the majority of the guys in the Hall-of-Fame didn't retire well off. Dick Gaines won a thousand A-Mains and yet Dickie's a great driver, that's often without a ride. Another thing that impedes the sport from getting big is that it is so much better to see in person than it is to watch on TV or on the internet. We're all addicted to the total sensory overload that is a sprint car race. And it takes TV to get it to a mass audience, thus generating mass advertising revenue. And without that, changing the economics of the sport will never change that much. I think fans should be willing to pay more, too. This kind of racing is a lot better than winged racing, IMO, yet they'll charge almost twice as much and still draw big crowds. Our racing is better, yet perceived to be of lesser value.

Oh you are absolutely right Jerry - it's the little engines that could that keep the big engines moving along. At some point though I think the big engine (or big shows) put on the brakes making it even harder for the little engines to keep going. I love the underdogs that come out on top at a big show.

Here's what I wonder......we are fast approaching Indiana Sprint Week - our Super Bowl if you will.....and let's face it - it is really just several regular USAC shows compacted into a shorter time period. Great for us as fans! We can take a week of vacation and see the greatest guys in the country compete practically every night. But why hasn't it evolved? Why hasn't it become bigger and better each year? Why isn't it more of a "super bowl" atmosphere? Now I'm a racing purist like the next person and I go to see the races, but if you want to go to the next level (get TV exposure, big sponsors, etc) then you have to have a little showbusiness along with the sport. Let's face it - the monster truck shows, the X games, they aren't selling out Conseco because everyone in there is a lifelong fan.

I don't know the finances involved or what the sanction fees imposed on the tracks are - but doesn't Sprint Week deserve to be a $10k to win EVERY NIGHT? UMP Summernationals which is a solid MONTH of racing every night except for 3 days off pays $6k to win on weeknights and $10k on weekend nights as best I can recall.....and we can't make our Super Bowl of non-wing sprint racing $10k each night for just 7?

And it starts next week - hmm - well I've yet to hear or see any commercials promoting the week...we all know about it and are excited but what about those that don't? The biggest race week of the year and no commercial prescence in the largest populated market of the state? Or maybe I just haven't heard/seen any and there are some airing.

We all know that these shows most likely have the highest grandstand attendance - so - how do we get there?

Again, I don't know the finances but why not:

raise the grandstand ticket price $7 (wait before you complain about price)
tie in a 3rd party retailer (say Speedway gas stations that have a presence throughout all of IN) to offer discount coupons for $5 off adult tickets - Speedway pays for advertising to promote the week giving televsion/radio/print promotion to increase attendance. Every other sporting "event" does this

You still have an extra $2 in incremental $ to contribute to a higher purse, plus you should have a higher attendance giving you greater sales to cover the higher purse.

Next - offer a megaticket. Verizon offers this and it sells extremely well. For a limited time before the week begins you sell megatickets that get you grandstand admission to every night of racing during sprint week. Tickets are non-refundable except in case of rain or cancellation, and you get a 10% discount or something similar for purchasing all at once. Now you have fans who may have only considered going to 4-5 nights of racing that will consider adding the final night because they're getting the discount - the tracks don't lose money because once you buy the ticket it's yours. If it rains you just refund back the portion for that one night of racing. Again, you should see some of the partial week spectators commit to another 1-2 nights giving you more incremental income.

Lastly - make it an event. Ever been to the Professional Bull Riding event? It was a two day show in Indy - sold out crowd and you had to buy a ticket for each day - two day points combined winner got $25,000 I think (purse isn't much bigger than a sprint car show) oh and if we're comparing sports I would wager that PBR is probably more dangerous than Sprint Car racing. But there is an excitement at this show - you know you are at an event - even if you don't know diddly squat about bulls. There is a personality (one of the clowns) that provides antics and information in the downtime. So while they're working the track - why isn't there a personality to build the excitement before the main event? It doesn't have to be a circus - but it does keep the kids and fair weather fans engaged.

Speaking of kids - why is there no mascot? Mascots are a commercial success - Triple AAA baseball teams have them - the feeder Hockey teams have them - little kids love them......again - more entertainment for the next generation and fair weather fans....you and I as purist may not like it - but if it keeps feet in the seats then we still get to watch a great race I could tolerate a guy in a tire costume.....

Back to the PBR - those riders are REQUIRED to spend 30 minutes after each event meeting and greeting the public unless they are not allowed to for medical reasons. Doesn't matter if you are the top dog, or the rookie you have to spend your 30 minutes shaking hands or you don't get paid - no going to your trailer and hiding.....think that would build some fans?

A kickoff event the night before - again - this is a sellable opportunity to a 3rd party - at say Hooters, another thing the PBR has done to build hype and promote - mandatory appearance by top points drivers, etc.

It may not be what you and I would enjoy - but then again - I would like to see the purses increase, the way that will happen is more fans, the way to get more fans is to advertise and market.

Sacha

[throb]

why hasnt this been moved to the off topic page like the one about paragon which WAS on topic?

[Mud Packer]

Originally Posted by wtvwrocks Oh you are absolutely right Jerry - it's the little engines that could that keep the big engines moving along. At some point though I think the big engine (or big shows) put on the brakes making it even harder for the little engines to keep going. I love the underdogs that come out on top at a big show. Here's what I wonder......we are fast approaching Indiana Sprint Week - our Super Bowl if you will.....and let's face it - it is really just several regular USAC shows compacted into a shorter time period. Great for us as fans! We can take a week of vacation and see the greatest guys in the country compete practically every night. But why hasn't it evolved? Why hasn't it become bigger and better each year? Why isn't it more of a "super bowl" atmosphere? Now I'm a racing purist like the next person and I go to see the races, but if you want to go to the next level (get TV exposure, big sponsors, etc) then you have to have a little showbusiness along with the sport. Let's face it - the monster truck shows, the X games, they aren't selling out Conseco because everyone in there is a lifelong fan. I don't know the finances involved or what the sanction fees imposed on the tracks are - but doesn't Sprint Week deserve to be a $10k to win EVERY NIGHT? UMP Summernationals which is a solid MONTH of racing every night except for 3 days off pays $6k to win on weeknights and $10k on weekend nights as best I can recall.....and we can't make our Super Bowl of non-wing sprint racing $10k each night for just 7? And it starts next week - hmm - well I've yet to hear or see any commercials promoting the week...we all know about it and are excited but what about those that don't? The biggest race week of the year and no commercial prescence in the largest populated market of the state? Or maybe I just haven't heard/seen any and there are some airing. We all know that these shows most likely have the highest grandstand attendance - so - how do we get there? Again, I don't know the finances but why not: raise the grandstand ticket price $7 (wait before you complain about price) tie in a 3rd party retailer (say Speedway gas stations that have a presence throughout all of IN) to offer discount coupons for $5 off adult tickets - Speedway pays for advertising to promote the week giving televsion/radio/print promotion to increase attendance. Every other sporting "event" does this You still have an extra $2 in incremental $ to contribute to a higher purse, plus you should have a higher attendance giving you greater sales to cover the higher purse. Next - offer a megaticket. Verizon offers this and it sells extremely well. For a limited time before the week begins you sell megatickets that get you grandstand admission to every night of racing during sprint week. Tickets are non-refundable except in case of rain or cancellation, and you get a 10% discount or something similar for purchasing all at once. Now you have fans who may have only considered going to 4-5 nights of racing that will consider adding the final night because they're getting the discount - the tracks don't lose money because once you buy the ticket it's yours. If it rains you just refund back the portion for that one night of racing. Again, you should see some of the partial week spectators commit to another 1-2 nights giving you more incremental income. Lastly - make it an event. Ever been to the Professional Bull Riding event? It was a two day show in Indy - sold out crowd and you had to buy a ticket for each day - two day points combined winner got $25,000 I think (purse isn't much bigger than a sprint car show) oh and if we're comparing sports I would wager that PBR is probably more dangerous than Sprint Car racing. But there is an excitement at this show - you know you are at an event - even if you don't know diddly squat about bulls. There is a personality (one of the clowns) that provides antics and information in the downtime. So while they're working the track - why isn't there a personality to build the excitement before the main event? It doesn't have to be a circus - but it does keep the kids and fair weather fans engaged. Speaking of kids - why is there no mascot? Mascots are a commercial success - Triple AAA baseball teams have them - the feeder Hockey teams have them - little kids love them......again - more entertainment for the next generation and fair weather fans....you and I as purist may not like it - but if it keeps feet in the seats then we still get to watch a great race I could tolerate a guy in a tire costume..... Back to the PBR - those riders are REQUIRED to spend 30 minutes after each event meeting and greeting the public unless they are not allowed to for medical reasons. Doesn't matter if you are the top dog, or the rookie you have to spend your 30 minutes shaking hands or you don't get paid - no going to your trailer and hiding.....think that would build some fans? A kickoff event the night before - again - this is a sellable opportunity to a 3rd party - at say Hooters, another thing the PBR has done to build hype and promote - mandatory appearance by top points drivers, etc. It may not be what you and I would enjoy - but then again - I would like to see the purses increase, the way that will happen is more fans, the way to get more fans is to advertise and market. Sacha

Sacha,

Some great ideas that would "enhance" the sprint week experience. I would like to see more of these ideas come forward to help move the sport a notch or two up the ladder. In the early days of sprintweek, I remember Danner's (I know, showing my real age here) being the title sponsor and offering discounted tickets for the shows.

Not trying to nit pick, but the Summer National payout changed a couple of years ago. Certain shows pay $5,000 to win now instead of the $6,000 pervious. They may have taken the money off of the top to increase the pay out farther down the list, I really don't know.

They have 7 $10,000 to win shows and one $12,000 to win show. It would be nice to reward the efforts of the owners/drivers/crews for all the hard work they do in entertaining the fans. I for one am glad you decided to post instead of just updates.

Originally Posted by Mud Packer The day you showed up on IOW with a chip on your shoulder and that freaking ATTITUDE!

Do they have dirt tracks in the land of butterflies and rainbows, Packer? If so, I might be interested in learning their language and proper etiquette. Perhaps I may take a visit there sometime and I don't want to offend anyone if I do. Actually, I never wanted to offend anyone on this forum, either, but sometimes the gloves have to come off for something that matters. What matters to you may be different than what matters to me. I care about the safety of everyone involved. I care about whether the local races are something I want to bring my kids to. I care about the American economy (for national security purposes) and try to have as much national pride as possible without being a fascist. I respect certain racing traditions. I respect the folks who held up the rear in all the decades of shows without ever taking a checkered flag. I respect the ones who wont get in a car without it being a top 3.

I don't really care about selling the sport or its drivers to potential sponsors or leagues. Sorry IOW, that's somebody else's job to care about money I once thought about a marketing job but realized I'd be terrible at it because I honestly don't care about money. They print more everyday Real wealth is measured in more than American dollar bills.

[SpfldMile]

Can't we all just get along? Let's all meet at Terre Haute Sunday for a group hug... or a beer.

Originally Posted by wtvwrocks Speaking of kids - why is there no mascot? Mascots are a commercial success - Triple AAA baseball teams have them - the feeder Hockey teams have them - little kids love them......again - more entertainment for the next generation and fair weather fans....you and I as purist may not like it - but if it keeps feet in the seats then we still get to watch a great race I could tolerate a guy in a tire costume..... Sacha

Warsaw had that clown I posted a pic on this thread. Not much racing more pure than what Warsaw was. You never know when a track promoter will dig your ideas. Dear racing gods, just don't make the mascot too creepy with hard bubble gum

---------- Post added at 11:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 AM ----------

Originally Posted by SpfldMile Can't we all just get along? Let's all meet at Terre Haute Sunday for a group hug... or a beer.

I planned on going but I fear an angry mob!

[SpfldMile]

Just wear sunglasses and camoflage. Come down to turn 3 in the infield, we're all friends there.

[Seadog]

Originally Posted by deannalynn Do they have dirt tracks in the land of butterflies and rainbows, Packer? If so, I might be interested in learning their language and proper etiquette. Perhaps I may take a visit there sometime and I don't want to offend anyone if I do. Actually, I never wanted to offend anyone on this forum, either, but sometimes the gloves have to come off for something that matters. What matters to you may be different than what matters to me. I care about the safety of everyone involved. I care about whether the local races are something I want to bring my kids to. I care about the American economy (for national security purposes) and try try to have as much national pride as possible without being a fascist. I respect certain racing traditions. I respect the folks who held up the rear in all the decades of shows without ever taking a checkered flag. I respect the ones who wont get in a car without it being a top 3. I don't really care about selling the sport or its drivers to potential sponsors or leagues. Sorry IOW, that's somebody else's job to care about money I once thought about a marketing job but realized I'd be terrible at it because I honestly don't care about money. They print more everyday Real wealth is measured in more than American dollar bills.

You're like a train wreck - horrible to witness, and yet I can't look away.

Thanks to me and others like me, you are able to run up your post count and are getting the attention you crave.

IMO