[Tim]

I stand corrected.

Tim Simmons

[Lucky161]

Originally Posted by Tim To your first point - All seven of the cars I mentioned had aluminum blocks. I only assumed they were 410"s. Maybe they had 360 aluminum engines. To your second point - Also Hockett, Chappel, Ray Allen, Johnson (although he was in Jack's car). To your third point - There are two hot-beds of non-wing sprint car racing in America - Indiana and Arizona/California. Both race predominantly with 410 engines. It would be prohibitively expensive for the cars from these areas to procure a steel block 360 to run only the SB schedule. You, therefore, lose the participation of these folks and rely solely on the existing 360 (ASCS) folks. I believe the weekend spoke for itself as to the desire of most of the marquee ASCS names to participate without the wing, as Jason Johnson, Gary Wright, Shane Stewart, etc. decided to run elsewhere for less money. Tim Simmons

I would agree that it makes sense that if those cars had aluminum engines then it would also make sense that they would be 410s. And as I suggested earlier it's not unreasonable to expect that an engine change would not be a problem for any of those guys. Only those that couldn't afford a different engine regardless of it's size or material would have a problem there.

I think you are making my point on the fact that the non winged cars couldn't afford to have a 360 too in order to run the SB series. Where were those CA/AZ and IN cars last weekend? They weren't at the Devils Bowl. Actually there were a couple of IN cars that were most likely 410s and one AZ car that wasn't included in your list of those with 410s and he is an ASCS regular, so he was probably in a 360.

Wright, Johnson, Stewart and other ASCS regulars that were not there were probably running somewhere else in ASCS. I don't know that for a fact. My guess is that the engine was not the reason they were not there.

I talked to a friend of mine who is a former track champion at the Devils Bowl who is not racing this year so far and he indicated interest in running the non wing cars with 360s. From what I can see those racers from CA/AZ are not likely to support races far from home, nor are those that are serious point contenders for the ASCS likely to support non ASCS races. So that leaves either a twenty car field that is 2/3 360s with local racers or trying a non wing 360 series to increase the field to perhaps 30 cars.

I went to one WoO race last year. It was the only one close enough for me to go to. I went knowing that nearly all of the WoO races I've ever been to had small fields. They had 18 cars with 3-5 of them being locals that normally run with ASCS with winged 360s. To me that is not premier racing. Premier racing to me would be what I saw earlier this year at the Devils Bowl where there was around 50-60 cars and a field so competitive that the all time winningest driver in ASCS, Wright and the defending ASCS champion both only made the A main through provisionals and a former champion Crawley didn't make the A main at all since the 2 provisionals were used up.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Lucky161 I would agree that it makes sense that if those cars had aluminum engines then it would also make sense that they would be 410s. And as I suggested earlier it's not unreasonable to expect that an engine change would not be a problem for any of those guys. Only those that couldn't afford a different engine regardless of it's size or material would have a problem there. I think you are making my point on the fact that the non winged cars couldn't afford to have a 360 too in order to run the SB series. Where were those CA/AZ and IN cars last weekend? They weren't at the Devils Bowl. Actually there were a couple of IN cars that were most likely 410s and one AZ car that wasn't included in your list of those with 410s and he is an ASCS regular, so he was probably in a 360. Wright, Johnson, Stewart and other ASCS regulars that were not there were probably running somewhere else in ASCS. I don't know that for a fact. My guess is that the engine was not the reason they were not there. I talked to a friend of mine who is a former track champion at the Devils Bowl who is not racing this year so far and he indicated interest in running the non wing cars with 360s. From what I can see those racers from CA/AZ are not likely to support races far from home, nor are those that are serious point contenders for the ASCS likely to support non ASCS races. So that leaves either a twenty car field that is 2/3 360s with local racers or trying a non wing 360 series to increase the field to perhaps 30 cars. I went to one WoO race last year. It was the only one close enough for me to go to. I went knowing that nearly all of the WoO races I've ever been to had small fields. They had 18 cars with 3-5 of them being locals that normally run with ASCS with winged 360s. To me that is not premier racing. Premier racing to me would be what I saw earlier this year at the Devils Bowl where there was around 50-60 cars and a field so competitive that the all time winningest driver in ASCS, Wright and the defending ASCS champion both only made the A main through provisionals and a former champion Crawley didn't make the A main at all since the 2 provisionals were used up.

The AZ car you're referring to, I believe, is Jack Yeley's car and was driven by Wayne Johnson, as I indicated in my post. This was indeed a 410 car.

Jason Johnson and Shane Stewart did indeed race elsewhere last weekend - I don't remember seeing Gary Wright's name on any results. The CA/AZ and IN guys were racing at home. It should be noted that Casey towed past a lot of race tracks to race in Texas and Arkansas the last two weekends, as did JC Bland.

The point here, is that many of the 360 guys apparently don't feel either competitive, or comfortable running without the wing. If you want to have a non-wing series you're going to need to get the cars from somewhere. The original question on this thread was whether it is good for a 360 to have won. Tim Crawley, and others showed that they are competitive which, if it brings car counts up, has to be a good thing.

Tim Simmons

[Lucky161]

Originally Posted by Tim The AZ car you're referring to, I believe, is Jack Yeley's car and was driven by Wayne Johnson, as I indicated in my post. This was indeed a 410 car. Jason Johnson and Shane Stewart did indeed race elsewhere last weekend - I don't remember seeing Gary Wright's name on any results. The CA/AZ and IN guys were racing at home. It should be noted that Casey towed past a lot of race tracks to race in Texas and Arkansas the last two weekends, as did JC Bland. The point here, is that many of the 360 guys apparently don't feel either competitive, or comfortable running without the wing. If you want to have a non-wing series you're going to need to get the cars from somewhere. The original question on this thread was whether it is good for a 360 to have won. Tim Crawley, and others showed that they are competitive which, if it brings car counts up, has to be a good thing. Tim Simmons

The AZ car I was talking about was the Barksdale 22. If I'm not mistaken he runs the AZ ASCS series regularly but has made several ASCS shows at the Devils Bowl too. I was assuming the Wayne Johnson car was one of the 410s and I didn't know where the car was out of.

Concerning Wright's running somewhere else, I've noticed he doesn't run all of the area ASCS races if they aren't on the National schedule even when they don't have another race.

And yes the question was about whether it's good for a 360 to win against a 410 and in my opinion it is.

Finally, I haven't decided if I like your car or not yet.
It is distinctive though and it stood out on the track.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Lucky161 The AZ car I was talking about was the Barksdale 22. If I'm not mistaken he runs the AZ ASCS series regularly but has made several ASCS shows at the Devils Bowl too. I was assuming the Wayne Johnson car was one of the 410s and I didn't know where the car was out of. Concerning Wright's running somewhere else, I've noticed he doesn't run all of the area ASCS races if they aren't on the National schedule even when they don't have another race. And yes the question was about whether it's good for a 360 to win against a 410 and in my opinion it is. Finally, I haven't decided if I like your car or not yet. It is distinctive though and it stood out on the track.

Yeah, that was the problem - I could only get it to stand out on the track - I couldn't get it to run on the track. Hopefully my driver will be ready this coming week.

Tim Simmons