[McInturff Racing]

I wish there was a readily available mechanical injection option for these engines. If I had my way there wouldn't be ANYTHING electrical on them except for the ignition. I get so frustrated trying to chase down electrical demons and dealing with EFI, but I am that way with my street cars too. I got spoiled when I was younger learning how to turn a wrench on muscle cars and classic "Vettes with my uncles that had about 3 wires going to the engine.
Good lord that rant makes me sound\feel old..

[TQ29m]

Dude, there is a "readily" available mechanical injection unit for these engines, I see used ones everyday on Ebay, for usually under $300.00, I've passed on at least a dozen in the past 3 months, true, there is a bit of engineering to be done to mount a pump, but that's simple, I've done several myself, as well as my own, it's even simpler on others, because I have to drive a dry sump pump, and a water pump, as well as the ignition, on a typical twin cam motor, you can drive off one cam, or both, couldn't ask for anything any easier. Bob

[DAD]

Old dogs do have problems learning new tricks. You might find a small injector body on Ebay, but in the 1000cc motors we use like a 45-48 mm throttle plate, they are a little harder to find. if you don't have any money.

The new electronics are almost fool-prof kinda of like your computer, if it messes up unplug it plug it back in and it is usually fixed.

To tune with electronics we use an old clayton dyno to load the car down. We used to use a road with a hill in front of our house but the Sheriff said he would rather we did not do that.

It is a good idea to have an air fuel meter to ck your exhaust gasses.
You set there at the computer have a helper bring the car up to the speed you want to adjust, read the meter go to the cell you are working on and type in a number larger or smaller than the number you are adjusting, check it and if the number is right the ex gas will show it and you go to the next cell. Sounds complicated but really simpler than sitting here trying to type and spell these words. When you are done about 30 to 45 min. The injector is spot on for every rpm and load you will see at the race track. We adjust for every 1000 rpm some anal type do it for every 500 or even 250 rpm's. with mechanical you have low speed mid range and high speed that you change. When the sun goes down you change pills. We have a little sensor that sniffs the air pres. and changes the settings as required. we run good at sea level in the sun or a 3000 feet in the snow.

It aint rocket science.

[TQ29m]

DAD, I'm currently running 45mm on my 600R, modular, bought off ebay back in either 04 or 05, with 2 pumps, all the bypasses, and a Kinser filter for $325.00, works great, not hard to tune at all, not all that particular to weather conditions, I usually run one pill, in the Spring, then in the heat of the summer, one different one, then in the fall, back to the spring one. I use a Kinsler Hi-speed, and don't use an "s", or idle bypass, just richen or lean the low end, off the barrel valve, don't get any easier than that! Bob

[McInturff Racing]

Urg, this being new to the mini sprint world can be frustrating. I didn't think mechanical injection for an R1 was even possible. Learn something new every day, which is good because I apparently still have mountains to learn about these cars. There are times I really miss my old rigid chassis QM or old dirt karts these days. Guess I shouldn't complain much. I have a wealth of info to draw from on the boards and with some of the folks I met this year, and I am back in a race car so life can't be all bad.

Originally Posted by TQ29m Dude, there is a "readily" available mechanical injection unit for these engines, I see used ones everyday on Ebay, for usually under $300.00, I've passed on at least a dozen in the past 3 months, true, there is a bit of engineering to be done to mount a pump, but that's simple, I've done several myself, as well as my own, it's even simpler on others, because I have to drive a dry sump pump, and a water pump, as well as the ignition, on a typical twin cam motor, you can drive off one cam, or both, couldn't ask for anything any easier. Bob

[TQ29m]

I let one slide the other day, a Kinsler, bodies, barrel valve and bypasses, for a 1000, went for under 300 clams, I didn't need anymore, one on and one spare should be enough, don't that make you're day?

[George Pollock]

Since 2000 I have been involved with developing the Esslinger 161 cubic inch national midget motors. Using mechanical fuel injection we are achieving about 385+ HP.

5 years ago I became involved with the EFI used on 1000cc bike engines and learned a lot on the internet about tuning the 32 bit ECU used on Suzuki and Kawasaki motors.

I have a bone stock 2010 GSXR 1000 on pump gas at 191 HP. On alcohol it is 197 HP, using all stock components. This engine is only 61 cubic inches and is directly tunable from my lap top. Yamaha and Honda engines use an ECU that is very difficult to tune and require a Power Commander to trick the ECU for tuning the fuel.
I originally wanted to help low budget mini sprint racers convert and tune engines but both midwest mini sprint organizations started dicussing rule changes requiring box stock ECU. I quickly lost interest in the mini sprints and those that wish racing would be equal for everyone even those that are not technical.
Well we live in a technical world and I appologize for those who are intimidated by technology. Maybe they should just have fun and not worry about every other racer.
EFI injection is so supperior to the mechanical slobber systems. EFI produces 3.25 HP per cubic inch displacement. Mechanical produces 2.4 HP per cubic inch displacement.
Engine ECU's can be tuned to balance injectors, throttle position syncronization, ignition timing, rev limits, ram air trims, ambient air temp. and pressure adjustments, all from available free information available on the internet.
If USAC would allow the national midget engines to use EFI it would reduce engine costs $5-6,000. Most engine problems (costly failures) are tuning errors experienced with mechanical fuel systems. MDSI use to list injector and ECU's available with ignition controls for almost any engine.
I like the EFI and the results from lap top tuning. Would not consider mechanical unless regulated to do so.
My thoughts on EFI.

[DAD]

AMEN GEORGE!

I'm 65 years old. I can remember when all I wanted was a Dick Tracy wrist watch. I finally got one for Christmas one year but it had a darned wire sticking out of it and was conected to to another one about 20 feet away. I had to wisper so my buddy could hold it up to his ear and here me. It was a lot simpler just to yell at him. I got one now I carry it in my shirt pocket and I can talk to anyone any where now or even send them video it's a lot better than old Dick ever had.

I can remember back in the late 50's my dad got a Hilborn fuel injector for an old flat head Ford he raced in the modified's back in the day. It was the utlimate speed secret and it did light a fire under that old Ford, he just could not keep rear axils under it, it had a ton of torque.

When I raced quarter midgets in the 60's we had "floatless 7/8 Amal" carbs on Alky on the "double A cars" It was a controlled drip system. They were the hot set up back then, however we could only jet them for 1 speed "WOT", no mid range and no idle. On starts and yellow flag laps they looked like a bunch of bucking broncos out there going around the track banging and beating one another.

Electronic injection has come to racing in a big way. Next year NASCAR will be using them in the cup cars. Guess that spells the end to $10,000.00 carburetors. They will cry a little at first but then it will all die down in a few weeks. I would almost bet lap times go down and they will probably do away with 1 or 2 pit stops along the way. I call that an improvment. I thought racing was supposed to lead the way and not follow, you know rear view mirrors, safety belts and helmets.

Back to the old "Power Comanders" They are band-aids used to adjust electronic injectors. What they actually do is tie into the engine temp part of the ECM and fool it into thinking the engine is hotter or colder than it really is, thus making the injection pulse longer or shorter and adding or taking away fuel. That is why when racing these engine you should leave the thermostat in to keep engine temp. constant.

Bob is use to adjusting mechanical injectors with pills and springs and turning the barrel valve. This seems second nature to him. He is also used to adjusting go kart carbs on the track "screw it out till it blubbers then screw it back in until it clears out" Do not take your eyes off of the track. I did that only once!

To adjust a car with an Alky converted injection system and a PC that has already been mapped can probably be done the same way with the fuel pres. regulator. Raise fp up to about 70 or 75 psi. If it blubbers drop 2 or 3 psi and try it again untill it clear up then raise it 1 psi for safety. You can do this on Alky but I would not do it on gas The window is way too narrow. They will always run the best when Lean but you take the chance of turning your motor into melted junk. We always ran our gas motor about 5 to 10 psi over the factory setting, helps them cool.

I've noticed when tuning on the Dyno there are just a few places that require tweaking from factory settings usually because of free flowing pipes and the pipe's ram effect on the intake system. I would suppose a person could just install larger injectors and a stainless filter and tune with Fuel Pres. only and come out with a pretty good set up.

To tune with the PC and get it spot on you will need a Dyno and a way to check your Air Fuel ratio and somebody to hook up the computer and make your map. But race cars don't have to be perfect just "close enough for government work"

[Sprint25b]

George I Sent you a message.

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[Bradleyracing86]

Mcinturff you have a pm.

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