amsa rules

Phylo82 · 9/24/09, 1:54 PM

We run a stock '06 GSXR1000 on gas. We don't run racing fuel....just standard 93 octane from the gas station. I bought it on eBay for $1200.

Something needs to be done to address this issue and others when the season is over. I think it would be a good idea for the drivers and their teams to get together and meet.

I have been considering creating a drivers organization. It would be open to all Mini-Sprint drivers/teams. This group would have NO association with any racing sanctioning body (AMSA, MMSA), parts distributor, car builder, etc. It would just be a method for teams to meet, discuss issues and take those issues to the appropriate organization, track, etc.

Something has to be done to bring down the cost of this sport and also to promote the sport. Right now I see nothing being done to accomplish either.

garry47 · 9/24/09, 3:42 PM

i agree with ap64, run methanol, stock bore and stroke, and no tire rule. the tire rule does make it more expensive unless every series has the same tire rule. and as for methanol, its cheaper, better for your engine, and safer

Bradleyracing86 · 9/24/09, 3:47 PM

Although I like Alky better you dont have to have it.. The 1x of Scotty Bradley runs pump gas, 87 octane to be exact, won four features and a championship...So its not a got to have item.....My experience with expensive gas is hotter temps... I ran pump gas last year, and ran fine...-andy

9/24/09, 4:20 PM

My two cents worth to keep the cost down for both organizations:

Stock Bore and Stroke
Alky or Gas
950 pounds - Yes I know some of the light weights will be able to put the weight where they want it but you have to make it impartial for all.
Tire Rule - it cost 3 to 4 times as much to run a tire rule vs an open tire rule.
Stock Ignition

Phil, I like your idea but the last thing we need right now is another organization. My offer still stands to both Bill, Allen and Jerry about getting together at the end of the season. There are already teams talking about moving on to Mods or Stocks just to get away from the implosion that is going to happen between the two organizations if they don't get there S**t together.

Phylo82 · 9/24/09, 5:22 PM

It wouldn't be a racing organization.....it would simply be a drivers club. Just a method for drivers (and car owners) to meet and discuss rules, problems, issues, etc. It would allow us to have some representation when we have issues whether it involves the AMSA, MMSA, a track, etc.

And we definitely need some sort of group to start promoting the sport. Right now there is a gold mine of opportunity out there to start attracting young drivers that are getting out of quarter midgets. These drivers have to retire from QMs the year they turn 16. A number of these kids will be looking to find other forms of racing.

We need some sort of group of folks willing to start promoting mini-sprints during the off season. I have a number of thoughts on this subject. There are opportunities out there.....we just need someone to start doing something.

There will be a number of trade shows going on during the off season. Next year Mini-Indy is hosting the QM Grand Nationals, not to mention the other region races that will be going on there, in Dayton and Columbus. We should be at these events promoting our sport.

TNR22 · 9/24/09, 6:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AP64

It's cheaper to run the motor on methanol. When you run them on gas, you have to run race gas and not regular pump gas. You can spend up to 8 dollars per gallon on race gas. Or you can buy methanol for 2.50 a gallon. As far as tires go, I am against any tire rule. The tires we run on our minisprint, we get 5 nights out of a right rear. A full season on the fronts, and half a season on the left rears. If a team wants to run a gumball right rear and replace it every night, have at it. As the race runs, they always fall back because they burnt the right rear off the car.

This is my opinion, on what needs to be done:

- Run them on methanol. It's cheaper, and safer. Must run fuel bladder.
- Stock bore and stroke. You finish in the top three, you get checked.
- No tire rule. Tire rules cost money. If you run with more than one organization, than you have to buy more tires.
- All cars 950lbs (with driver), this takes most of the light weight parts out of the game.
- 1000cc or 1200cc. If you look at the horsepower that the new (2004 and newer) 1000cc put out, they are better than any 1200cc.

I agree on everything except tire rule I think a tire rule would be great, Tires were my biggest expence this year by far. I also think it is insane to run one of these cars on gas without a bladder, that is a disaster just waiting to happen.

Phylo82 · 9/24/09, 6:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNR22

I agree on everything except tire rule I think a tire rule would be great, Tires were my biggest expence this year by far. I also think it is insane to run one of these cars on gas without a bladder, that is a disaster just waiting to happen.

The only problem with a tire rule is if you run both the AMSA and the MMSA and they have different spec tires, or if one has a spec tire and the other does not. You will need to have two different sets of tires in your trailer.

Then again, this is another area where if the drivers got together and pushed a cost savings solution we could go to both organizations and ask them to adopt it.

HoosierDirt · 9/24/09, 9:41 PM

If where going to promote mini sprint racing as a stepping stone to racing openwheel it shouldnt be about who can find the best aftermarket parts to dominate and discurage other drivers from racing beacause they dont have the money to compete ..last year it was stroker motors this year its the high dollar injection system.. It would make more since to just make it one class STOCK no aftermarket injectors.. then there is no need to change the rules every year ..complete stock off the bike bolt on and go racing ..engine rules solved.. this will less discourage new and older drivers from just giving up beacause they cant compete with someone else because they dont have the money to compete with them ...the way its being run is not a steping stone for to sprints its a dieing organization amsa and mmsa will be no longer if it continues to go like it is .. if it changes you will see more cars and bigger car count and different winners every week not the same every week and a more racey race .

As far as a group meeting to talk about everyones opinions it should be done before its to late ..im up for it

mini27 · 9/24/09, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoosierDirt

If where going to promote mini sprint racing as a stepping stone to racing openwheel it shouldnt be about who can find the best aftermarket parts to dominate and discurage other drivers from racing beacause they dont have the money to compete ..last year it was stroker motors this year its the high dollar injection system.. It would make more since to just make it one class STOCK no aftermarket injectors.. then there is no need to change the rules every year ..complete stock off the bike bolt on and go racing ..engine rules solved.. this will less discourage new and older drivers from just giving up beacause they cant compete with someone else because they dont have the money to compete with them ...the way its being run is not a steping stone for to sprints its a dieing organization amsa and mmsa will be no longer if it continues to go like it is .. if it changes you will see more cars and bigger car count and different winners every week not the same every week and a more racey race .

As far as a group meeting to talk about everyones opinions it should be done before its to late ..im up for it

who ran stroker motors last year?

slide22 · 9/24/09, 11:01 PM

1st. You can't ban methanol because it is much safer than gasoline.

2nd. The alcohol conversion's being complained about aren't that extravagant. All it is is a fuel rail, and power commander map. The full System only adds a bigger air box. I couldn't tell the difference when we switched from the stock air box to the aftermarket air box.

3rd. AMSA has had 9 different winners this year. More than any other track, or series running upright mini-sprints in the Midwest.

4th. SP3 is less than $200. Run it half a season. Unhook the cars a bunch, take away some of the engine advantage

While I agree there needs to be rule changes to curb the cost of the engines, some of you are making much ado about nothing. If you come to the racetrack thinking you can't beat the guy who spends more money than you, well then you WON"T beat him. I learned that early on this year when I was upset with the big spenders. Worry about making yourself better, gain experience, and work on setting up and making your car better instead of worrying about what kind of engine the guy next to you has. You focus on beating the guy, instead of being upset because he spent more than you, and you might run alot better. Racing is a psychological game more than anything else.

The level of competition this year is unbelievable compared to years past. Just look at some of the drivers who have won this year. Pretty much every driver who has won this year has raced some type of open wheel car for 5-6+ years, or more. Obviously the guys who have been doing this for a long time are going to know how to set the car up better, how to make their car run faster, and understand driving these things alot better than the guy who's only been racing 1 or 2 years.

This isn't go-carts or quarter midgets, the driver and setup does actually matter in these cars. I've seen lots of cars go out and spend a bunch of money on an engine, and they can't get out of their own way. Outspending someone won't make you go out and win every night. Perfect example happened this year at Lawrenceburg. I saw a driver who has raced these cars for as long as I can remember, hop into a car that he had NO experience driving, and the car typically wasn't very fast. He almost lapped the field in the B-main, and there was some pretty stout cars in the B that night.

9/24/09, 1:54 PM	#11 Re: amsa rules
Phylo82 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,054	We run a stock '06 GSXR1000 on gas. We don't run racing fuel....just standard 93 octane from the gas station. I bought it on eBay for $1200. Something needs to be done to address this issue and others when the season is over. I think it would be a good idea for the drivers and their teams to get together and meet. I have been considering creating a drivers organization. It would be open to all Mini-Sprint drivers/teams. This group would have NO association with any racing sanctioning body (AMSA, MMSA), parts distributor, car builder, etc. It would just be a method for teams to meet, discuss issues and take those issues to the appropriate organization, track, etc. Something has to be done to bring down the cost of this sport and also to promote the sport. Right now I see nothing being done to accomplish either. __________________ Phil Heil #13e Maxim Sprint Owner, Crew Chief, Pit Crew, Hauler, Check Writer, Grunt

9/24/09, 5:22 PM	#15 Re: amsa rules
Phylo82 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,054	It wouldn't be a racing organization.....it would simply be a drivers club. Just a method for drivers (and car owners) to meet and discuss rules, problems, issues, etc. It would allow us to have some representation when we have issues whether it involves the AMSA, MMSA, a track, etc. And we definitely need some sort of group to start promoting the sport. Right now there is a gold mine of opportunity out there to start attracting young drivers that are getting out of quarter midgets. These drivers have to retire from QMs the year they turn 16. A number of these kids will be looking to find other forms of racing. We need some sort of group of folks willing to start promoting mini-sprints during the off season. I have a number of thoughts on this subject. There are opportunities out there.....we just need someone to start doing something. There will be a number of trade shows going on during the off season. Next year Mini-Indy is hosting the QM Grand Nationals, not to mention the other region races that will be going on there, in Dayton and Columbus. We should be at these events promoting our sport. __________________ Phil Heil #13e Maxim Sprint Owner, Crew Chief, Pit Crew, Hauler, Check Writer, Grunt _________________________________________________ Last edited by Phylo82; 9/24/09 at 5:27 PM.

9/24/09, 3:42 PM	#12 Re: amsa rules
garry47 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 58	i agree with ap64, run methanol, stock bore and stroke, and no tire rule. the tire rule does make it more expensive unless every series has the same tire rule. and as for methanol, its cheaper, better for your engine, and safer

9/24/09, 3:47 PM	#13 Re: amsa rules
Bradleyracing86 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,621	Although I like Alky better you dont have to have it.. The 1x of Scotty Bradley runs pump gas, 87 octane to be exact, won four features and a championship...So its not a got to have item.....My experience with expensive gas is hotter temps... I ran pump gas last year, and ran fine...-andy

9/24/09, 4:20 PM	#14 Re: amsa rules
williscrg Posts: n/a	My two cents worth to keep the cost down for both organizations: Stock Bore and Stroke Alky or Gas 950 pounds - Yes I know some of the light weights will be able to put the weight where they want it but you have to make it impartial for all. Tire Rule - it cost 3 to 4 times as much to run a tire rule vs an open tire rule. Stock Ignition Phil, I like your idea but the last thing we need right now is another organization. My offer still stands to both Bill, Allen and Jerry about getting together at the end of the season. There are already teams talking about moving on to Mods or Stocks just to get away from the implosion that is going to happen between the two organizations if they don't get there S**t together.

9/24/09, 9:41 PM	#18 Re: amsa rules
HoosierDirt Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 55	If where going to promote mini sprint racing as a stepping stone to racing openwheel it shouldnt be about who can find the best aftermarket parts to dominate and discurage other drivers from racing beacause they dont have the money to compete ..last year it was stroker motors this year its the high dollar injection system.. It would make more since to just make it one class STOCK no aftermarket injectors.. then there is no need to change the rules every year ..complete stock off the bike bolt on and go racing ..engine rules solved.. this will less discourage new and older drivers from just giving up beacause they cant compete with someone else because they dont have the money to compete with them ...the way its being run is not a steping stone for to sprints its a dieing organization amsa and mmsa will be no longer if it continues to go like it is .. if it changes you will see more cars and bigger car count and different winners every week not the same every week and a more racey race . As far as a group meeting to talk about everyones opinions it should be done before its to late ..im up for it

9/24/09, 11:01 PM	#20 Re: amsa rules
slide22 Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 350	1st. You can't ban methanol because it is much safer than gasoline. 2nd. The alcohol conversion's being complained about aren't that extravagant. All it is is a fuel rail, and power commander map. The full System only adds a bigger air box. I couldn't tell the difference when we switched from the stock air box to the aftermarket air box. 3rd. AMSA has had 9 different winners this year. More than any other track, or series running upright mini-sprints in the Midwest. 4th. SP3 is less than $200. Run it half a season. Unhook the cars a bunch, take away some of the engine advantage While I agree there needs to be rule changes to curb the cost of the engines, some of you are making much ado about nothing. If you come to the racetrack thinking you can't beat the guy who spends more money than you, well then you WON"T beat him. I learned that early on this year when I was upset with the big spenders. Worry about making yourself better, gain experience, and work on setting up and making your car better instead of worrying about what kind of engine the guy next to you has. You focus on beating the guy, instead of being upset because he spent more than you, and you might run alot better. Racing is a psychological game more than anything else. The level of competition this year is unbelievable compared to years past. Just look at some of the drivers who have won this year. Pretty much every driver who has won this year has raced some type of open wheel car for 5-6+ years, or more. Obviously the guys who have been doing this for a long time are going to know how to set the car up better, how to make their car run faster, and understand driving these things alot better than the guy who's only been racing 1 or 2 years. This isn't go-carts or quarter midgets, the driver and setup does actually matter in these cars. I've seen lots of cars go out and spend a bunch of money on an engine, and they can't get out of their own way. Outspending someone won't make you go out and win every night. Perfect example happened this year at Lawrenceburg. I saw a driver who has raced these cars for as long as I can remember, hop into a car that he had NO experience driving, and the car typically wasn't very fast. He almost lapped the field in the B-main, and there was some pretty stout cars in the B that night.