[Tim]

Originally Posted by Jonr So was a 360 win on Saturday night good or bad for the Bandit series? Can it ever be good for a 360 to win a 410 race?

It can only be good for a 360 to win a 410 race. This gives those of us with the 360 hope to be able to compete. Hope is the thing that keeps us coming to the track. With no hope car count will suffer.

If you go to I-30 in Little Rock, you're going to have to contend with Tim Crawley. I believe he has enough laps at that track to be able to drive it blind, relying on only feel and timing. I need to give a shout out to Zach Pringle, as well. He was also in a 360 and ran 5th, passing cars on the way.

I see this as nothing but good for the SB series.

Tim Simmons

[Seadog]

I went to the USAC sprint race at Dixie Speedway in Woodstock, Georgia about 5 or 6 years ago (saw D.O. there). They had a few guys from USCS with 360 engines there and offered a bonuses to make the feateure and/or win the race. I think one 360 car made the feature and he took the green and then parked it and took the start money and the bonus. I don't think the 360 was the real disadvantage for them, but the fact that they had to take the wing off and they didn't know how to set the car up for wingless racing, having never driven with out a wing before.

The nice red clay stayed fairly tacky and racy most of the night IIRC.

[Jonr]

If you are advertising yourself as a premier 410 wingless series, having a 360 win the race seems to question how premier the 410's are.

When a guy brings a knife to a gun fight and beats the gun fighter, it makes you question how good was the gun fighter.

If there was ever going to be a track where this would happen, I-30 may have been the track. Size of the track, quality of the 360's, laps on the track, etc. However, for a growing series it seems not to be the best result.

[short track scott]

Isn't a 360 in a 410 show just a motor built WAY below the limit? A guy (like Tim Crawley) winning with it is a testament to optimizing available track conditions to what the car has available. I believe a 360 winning is noteworthy, but I don't think anything would've been said if he ran second. If 360s went 1-7, then one stands to question things a bit.

Any car, legally competing for the win, is a good thing to me. Ones who use what seems to be a disadvantage, that's even better.
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[Tim]

Originally Posted by Jonr If you are advertising yourself as a premier 410 wingless series, having a 360 win the race seems to question how premier the 410's are. When a guy brings a knife to a gun fight and beats the gun fighter, it makes you question how good was the gun fighter. If there was ever going to be a track where this would happen, I-30 may have been the track. Size of the track, quality of the 360's, laps on the track, etc. However, for a growing series it seems not to be the best result.

The series only grows if there are competitors. At this time there are probably fewer than a dozen aluminum 410 engines in the entire states of Texas and Arkansas where this swing competed. Casey, Robert, and JC Bland were committed enough to this series to make the tow, and Brady, Jesse, Travis, and Ray Allen were committed enough to strap in 410's, but that's only 7 cars. The 360's are needed in this area to fill the field, but they won't show up without any hope of being competitive. And, I don't know that SB is advertising themselves so much as a premier 410 non-wing series as they are a premier non-wing series.

We should also remember that the entire Texas-Arkansas swing was built on tracks that the non-wing guys had never been on before. I think that, given laps for the non-wing guys, Tim would have had his hands full, but still would have been competing for the win. It doesn't matter whether your motor makes 700 or 900 HP if you're only getting 450 to the ground.

Tim Simmons

[Chris Nunn]

we had a similar situation at Brownstown a few weeks back as a Crate Late Model beat a field of Super Late Models. If the track is black slick, less is better.
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[Lucky161]

Originally Posted by kylenap@yahoo.com Tim Crawley was the driver who won with the 360. The car Rilat was in is different from the 29 car that he normally runs with the ASCS.

That is correct in that the car Rilat normally races in ASCS is the number 29 and in this race he ran the 50off car. However, the previous times Rilat has run the 50off car it was in regular winged 360 ASCS races. That doesn't mean he didn't have a 410 in it for this race and/or series though. The sponsor of the 50off car is also a sponsor of Cowtown Speedway which does run 360 winged races and does not run any 410 races. Additionally the car Bacon drove to second looked to me to the the exact same car that he runs in the winged 360 ASCS races. Again, it still could have had a 410 for this race.

It is my personal opinion the track/sanctioning body did us fans a dis-service by not making it clear who in fact was and wasn't running 410s. As I said in another post, I think that the end result of having a series running 410s, be it WoO or the Bandits is to reduce the car count.

---------- Post added at 10:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Tim The series only grows if there are competitors. At this time there are probably fewer than a dozen aluminum 410 engines in the entire states of Texas and Arkansas where this swing competed. Casey, Robert, and JC Bland were committed enough to this series to make the tow, and Brady, Jesse, Travis, and Ray Allen were committed enough to strap in 410's, but that's only 7 cars. The 360's are needed in this area to fill the field, but they won't show up without any hope of being competitive. And, I don't know that SB is advertising themselves so much as a premier 410 non-wing series as they are a premier non-wing series. We should also remember that the entire Texas-Arkansas swing was built on tracks that the non-wing guys had never been on before. I think that, given laps for the non-wing guys, Tim would have had his hands full, but still would have been competing for the win. It doesn't matter whether your motor makes 700 or 900 HP if you're only getting 450 to the ground. Tim Simmons

Even if all 7 of those cars had 410s, that's only 1/3 of the field. And while I am not saying they didn't have 410s, there are indications that they might not have been.
And if I read what you are saying correctly you indicate that the non winged guys had no experience on these tracks. Who does that leave? Rilat, Bacon and Crawley all have experience on these tracks in winged 360 cars. That would mean that this is a touring series with only 3-4 regular competitors?
To me it would be much easier for a small handful of guys with 410s to come up with 360s than to find twice as many or more of the 360 guys to fund a 410 for a just few races.
The WoO is touted as the premier winged sprint car series. But in my experience the ASCS puts on MUCH better races on a regular basis than the WoO and have done so for years. In my opinion a 360 Sprint Bandit series would be much better than the 410 too.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Lucky161 That is correct in that the car Rilat normally races in ASCS is the number 29 and in this race he ran the 50off car. However, the previous times Rilat has run the 50off car it was in regular winged 360 ASCS races. That doesn't mean he didn't have a 410 in it for this race and/or series though. The sponsor of the 50off car is also a sponsor of Cowtown Speedway which does run 360 winged races and does not run any 410 races. Additionally the car Bacon drove to second looked to me to the the exact same car that he runs in the winged 360 ASCS races. Again, it still could have had a 410 for this race. It is my personal opinion the track/sanctioning body did us fans a dis-service by not making it clear who in fact was and wasn't running 410s. As I said in another post, I think that the end result of having a series running 410s, be it WoO or the Bandits is to reduce the car count. ---------- Post added at 10:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 AM ---------- Even if all 7 of those cars had 410s, that's only 1/3 of the field. And while I am not saying they didn't have 410s, there are indications that they might not have been. And if I read what you are saying correctly you indicate that the non winged guys had no experience on these tracks. Who does that leave? Rilat, Bacon and Crawley all have experience on these tracks in winged 360 cars. That would mean that this is a touring series with only 3-4 regular competitors? To me it would be much easier for a small handful of guys with 410s to come up with 360s than to find twice as many or more of the 360 guys to fund a 410 for a just few races. The WoO is touted as the premier winged sprint car series. But in my experience the ASCS puts on MUCH better races on a regular basis than the WoO and have done so for years. In my opinion a 360 Sprint Bandit series would be much better than the 410 too.

To your first point - All seven of the cars I mentioned had aluminum blocks. I only assumed they were 410"s. Maybe they had 360 aluminum engines.

To your second point - Also Hockett, Chappel, Ray Allen, Johnson (although he was in Jack's car).

To your third point - There are two hot-beds of non-wing sprint car racing in America - Indiana and Arizona/California. Both race predominantly with 410 engines. It would be prohibitively expensive for the cars from these areas to procure a steel block 360 to run only the SB schedule. You, therefore, lose the participation of these folks and rely solely on the existing 360 (ASCS) folks. I believe the weekend spoke for itself as to the desire of most of the marquee ASCS names to participate without the wing, as Jason Johnson, Gary Wright, Shane Stewart, etc. decided to run elsewhere for less money.

Tim Simmons

[quicktime3]

I'm not sure why they need to tell people what each car has under the hood. The point is that they are all sprint cars. The cool thing about Sprint Cars without aerodynamics is that the thing underneath the hood is much less a factor. They're all just sprint cars, really.
The only bad part about the Little Rock show is that they didn't get much of a race track to work with...

[AustinSprinter]

Originally Posted by Tim To your first point - All seven of the cars I mentioned had aluminum blocks. I only assumed they were 410"s. Maybe they had 360 aluminum engines. To your second point - Also Hockett, Chappel, Ray Allen, Johnson (although he was in Jack's car). To your third point - There are two hot-beds of non-wing sprint car racing in America - Indiana and Arizona/California. Both race predominantly with 410 engines. It would be prohibitively expensive for the cars from these areas to procure a steel block 360 to run only the SB schedule. You, therefore, lose the participation of these folks and rely solely on the existing 360 (ASCS) folks. I believe the weekend spoke for itself as to the desire of most of the marquee ASCS names to participate without the wing, as Jason Johnson, Gary Wright, Shane Stewart, etc. decided to run elsewhere for less money. Tim Simmons

Shane Stewart ran for a little more and won!!..$4,000 + $1,700. lap money in (GSC) Dave Bradway,Jr. Memorial at Silver Dollar Spdwy,Chico,Ca...2.Kyle Larson 3.Bud Kaeding...results/comments..Silver Dollar Speedway & Golden State Challange Series.......
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Brucer'