Financial Adviser's Phone Number Please?

DonMoore10 · 12/7/08, 11:59 AM

Have you taken a drive around ur neighborhood lately? Ummmmm... that is if you can afford it. Let's see. Here in Northern Ohio: Norwalk Furniture Co., Donato's Pizza, Fazoli's, TGIFriday's, Circuit City, Rego's Fresh Food Market, Tony Roma's Ribs, Value City Department Stores, new and used car dealers, Big Lots, Smokey Bones Restaurant, Conneaut Lake Park, Maui Indoor Waterpark Resort, Geauga Lake Park, potential plant closings at Ford, GM and Chrysler, thousands of home foreclosures, National City Bank and so on all have either closed are are on the brink of closing.

Now let's turn back the clock to the 1970's for a moment and talk about those east coast modifieds. I attended the USAC Silver Crown race at the NY State Farigrounds in the 70's that included the modifieds on the racing card. OMG... when they came out on the track, I thought the grandstand with 12,000 people was going to collapse with the thunderous enthusiasm of the large crowd in attendance. Hold the phone race fans... NSSN on Nov. 26, 2008 featured a big article on these machines. Apparently things have gone downhill. What used to be 18,000 fans for DIRT week appears to be about half that now. A new Syracuse car runs $30,000, motor $35-40,000, $2500 for tires, $1,000 for fuel plus motel rooms and food. And the TV deals have all dried up.

Now let's go back to 1991. OPEN WHEEL Mag. August issue. Former ace USAC driver Steve Butler's article: "LET'S DO SOMETHING" (about the cost of racing). Are you kidding me?? Gosh, I hate to tell you Steve that 17 years later, nobody is doing anything about it including the organization that you used to race for. Yeah, Steve, instead they're chasing quarter.... pardon me... .25 midgets.

Now in that Butler article ( remember this is 1991, 17 years ago) Steve interviewed, of all people, Earl Gaerte, famed engine builder. Earl gave four suggestions to limit the costs of racing. Here are the four:

1. Inmplement a compression-ratio limit. He recommends 11:1 ( I think he's referring to sprint car engines in this case).

2. Use restrictor inserts in the fuel injection ram tubes.

3. Reduce wing size (obviously for winged sprint cars)

4.REGULATE TIRES!!!!! Earl says harder compounds would unhook the rear wheels of the race cars, thereby reducing the need for high-horsepower motors.

OPEN WHEEL MAG, 2001, February issue. BIG MONEY, LITTLE CARS. WHAT EFFECT IS SKYROCKETING COST HAVING ON MIDGET RACING? Written by Dave Argabright and Mike O'Leary. Ralph Potter, former long time USAC car owner says "The cost of racing is so astronimical, I just don't want to put the money into it anymore. I don't know who wants to spend $100,000 (on a midget team) to win $2,000."

Apparently, though, despite what you've read here so far, the 2008 midget community is immune to all of this. It's business as usual with all the midget orgs with the exception of ARDC which recently voted down the Esslinger engine and previously outlawed the new generation Fontana also. By the way, a recent ad in NSSN says that Fontana costs $37,000 and Fontana says you need this engine to win!!! Even the Wisconsin midget org membership keeps voting in the tire monopoly. And I just read a press release that a Tulsa midget office is being "flooded" with entries for a midget show.

So... does anybody have the phone number of the financial advisor of the midget community??

12/7/08, 1:12 PM

NASCAR dropped all testing to reduce costs, but you can still go to (non-nascar tracks) Kentucky and test all you want. I'm sure the big money teams will have part-time garages there before long. I can see this getting worse maybe much worse before it gets better. During the CART Indycar years Tony George put a stop to the high cost starting the IRL and took all the heat. He may look like a smart man before this is over. I wonder how many midget & sprint teams will limit their races or just quit for awhile.

With sponsorships disappearing at the top it's going to happen at the bottom if one even has one to begin with. In the '77 recession era I remember some weeks at Haubstadt where they would only have 16-18 sprints. Hopefully this rough time will be over soon. What concerns me though is back in '77 people were laid off but had jobs to return to. Now those jobs have moved to Mexico and everywhere else.

Somehow sprints/midgets need to go back to cast-iron blocks and other measures. Cutting motor costs in half would help a lot of teams.

Joey Woods · 12/7/08, 2:23 PM

Thats your best one yet Don. IMO :respect:

DonMoore10 · 12/7/08, 2:33 PM

Well thanks!! Can we have a party when somebody finally does something?

JstAbvVMC · 12/7/08, 2:57 PM

Don I see your point, but I don't think you see the big picture. Racing is a very very expensive hobby/life that people choose to participate in. In my 30 plus years involved in racing I can not remember a time that the cost or racing was not an issue. It has always been that way and I'm willing to bet that it always will be so. So, on this day I choose not to complain, but to be very thankful that I and my entire generation are privilaged to enjoy the sport we love so much given the sacrafice of so many in WWII. I guess I look at things a little different, "Damn glad to be here, SIR!" Just my two cents Don, no disrespect meant at all.

DonMoore10 · 12/7/08, 3:28 PM

Well I certainly respect ur opinion, thanks. You may not have a choice if you want to go racing or not soon. As of 2008, midget racing has dried up here. Do you have a suggestion on how midget racing is going to be revitalized here in Ohio for example?

Attica Raceway Park - Midget Racing GONE

Fremont Speedway - Midget Racing GONE

Limaland Speedway - Midget Racing GONE

Toledo Speedway - Midget Racing Gone

Mansfield Speedway - Midget Racing GONE

Lakeville Speedway - Midget Racing GONE

Columbus Motor Speedway - Midget Racing GONE

And I could name you 15-20 tracks that have eliminated midget racing in Ohio in the last 50 years.

On the plus side we have Tony Barhorst promoting indoor racing at Columbus and Toledo.

Dick Monahan · 12/7/08, 3:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JstAbvVMC

...Racing is a very very expensive hobby/life that people choose to participate in. In my 30 plus years involved in racing I can not remember a time that the cost or racing was not an issue. ...

In the early 70s, I was part of a NEMA team that was running 3rd or 4th in the points. On our way to one of the last races of the year, we stopped for gas, which I paid for out of the cigar box we kept under the front seat. With nothing to do for the next hour or so, I started organizing it. Noting there was a bunch of cash there, I asked the owner how often he had refreshed it. "I put $500 in there last Spring. That's it.", he replied. I counted the cash; there was over $300 there. All expenses, including the driver's 40% had been paid out of that box. He had also spent another $5-600 over the previous winter, but his grand total was under $1000 for the year.

A year or two later, the owner, who owned a single-island Mobil station, bought a new Edmunds chassis and a SESCO engine. This was the best combination that could be bought at the time. He paid approximately $300 more than I paid for a new Ford Country Squire at about the same time.

Don takes a lot of crap here for expressing a wish that midget/sprint racing could be "blue collar" sports again, but he's not alone.

Heromaker · 12/7/08, 6:51 PM

I am not here to discount what you are saying DM10, but I will say just two small things to disagree with. Since the articles you are quoting the midget community is using a spec tire that is harder than what we used to run, and the Esslinger engine you think is killing midget racing is probably one of the cheapest (for the lack of a better term) to run in a year.

All I am saying DM10 is.... it may be too far gone from where it used to be and I don't ever know if it could get back to being the family/hobby sport it used to be.

thebus79h · 12/7/08, 7:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heromaker

I am not here to discount what you are saying DM10, but I will say just two small things to disagree with. Since the articles you are quoting the midget community is using a spec tire that is harder than what we used to run, and the Esslinger engine you think is killing midget racing is probably one of the cheapest (for the lack of a better term) to run in a year.

All I am saying DM10 is.... it may be too far gone from where it used to be and I don't ever know if it could get back to being the family/hobby sport it used to be.

With that line of thinking, this country is screwed too. There is ways to fix it, but it can't be fixed over night. They are already doing this with micro sprint organizations, by saying that in 2010 you have to have this, and by 2012 it has to be this, in order to get rid, use up, or blow up your current stuff. That's the fairest way to do it, and it IS possible, as long as people WANT to do it. Personally, midgets is my favorite type of open wheel racing, and to see it in the shape it is in really sucks. Something has to be done with it, and it's gotta become more affordable. Midgets were always a grassroots deal, and now if you want to show off that you have money, you race a midget.

DonMoore10 · 12/7/08, 7:38 PM

At least there seems to be some sort of plan in the works for the economy.. AND.. officials are admitting there is a problem. A far cry from the midget orgs in this country which are driven by big business deals that have nothing to do with the welfare of the particpants. Business as usual with these people. Selling a logo and a brand is their main priority.

12/7/08, 1:12 PM	#2 Re: Financial Adviser's Phone Number Please?
aceace Posts: n/a	NASCAR dropped all testing to reduce costs, but you can still go to (non-nascar tracks) Kentucky and test all you want. I'm sure the big money teams will have part-time garages there before long. I can see this getting worse maybe much worse before it gets better. During the CART Indycar years Tony George put a stop to the high cost starting the IRL and took all the heat. He may look like a smart man before this is over. I wonder how many midget & sprint teams will limit their races or just quit for awhile. With sponsorships disappearing at the top it's going to happen at the bottom if one even has one to begin with. In the '77 recession era I remember some weeks at Haubstadt where they would only have 16-18 sprints. Hopefully this rough time will be over soon. What concerns me though is back in '77 people were laid off but had jobs to return to. Now those jobs have moved to Mexico and everywhere else. Somehow sprints/midgets need to go back to cast-iron blocks and other measures. Cutting motor costs in half would help a lot of teams. _________________________________________________ Last edited by aceace; 12/7/08 at 1:15 PM.

12/7/08, 2:33 PM	#4 Re: Financial Adviser's Phone Number Please?
DonMoore10 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,474	Well thanks!! Can we have a party when somebody finally does something? _________________________________________________ Last edited by DonMoore10; 12/7/08 at 2:42 PM.

12/7/08, 11:59 AM	#1 Financial Adviser's Phone Number Please?
DonMoore10 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,474	Have you taken a drive around ur neighborhood lately? Ummmmm... that is if you can afford it. Let's see. Here in Northern Ohio: Norwalk Furniture Co., Donato's Pizza, Fazoli's, TGIFriday's, Circuit City, Rego's Fresh Food Market, Tony Roma's Ribs, Value City Department Stores, new and used car dealers, Big Lots, Smokey Bones Restaurant, Conneaut Lake Park, Maui Indoor Waterpark Resort, Geauga Lake Park, potential plant closings at Ford, GM and Chrysler, thousands of home foreclosures, National City Bank and so on all have either closed are are on the brink of closing. Now let's turn back the clock to the 1970's for a moment and talk about those east coast modifieds. I attended the USAC Silver Crown race at the NY State Farigrounds in the 70's that included the modifieds on the racing card. OMG... when they came out on the track, I thought the grandstand with 12,000 people was going to collapse with the thunderous enthusiasm of the large crowd in attendance. Hold the phone race fans... NSSN on Nov. 26, 2008 featured a big article on these machines. Apparently things have gone downhill. What used to be 18,000 fans for DIRT week appears to be about half that now. A new Syracuse car runs $30,000, motor $35-40,000, $2500 for tires, $1,000 for fuel plus motel rooms and food. And the TV deals have all dried up. Now let's go back to 1991. OPEN WHEEL Mag. August issue. Former ace USAC driver Steve Butler's article: "LET'S DO SOMETHING" (about the cost of racing). Are you kidding me?? Gosh, I hate to tell you Steve that 17 years later, nobody is doing anything about it including the organization that you used to race for. Yeah, Steve, instead they're chasing quarter.... pardon me... .25 midgets. Now in that Butler article ( remember this is 1991, 17 years ago) Steve interviewed, of all people, Earl Gaerte, famed engine builder. Earl gave four suggestions to limit the costs of racing. Here are the four: 1. Inmplement a compression-ratio limit. He recommends 11:1 ( I think he's referring to sprint car engines in this case). 2. Use restrictor inserts in the fuel injection ram tubes. 3. Reduce wing size (obviously for winged sprint cars) 4.REGULATE TIRES!!!!! Earl says harder compounds would unhook the rear wheels of the race cars, thereby reducing the need for high-horsepower motors. OPEN WHEEL MAG, 2001, February issue. BIG MONEY, LITTLE CARS. WHAT EFFECT IS SKYROCKETING COST HAVING ON MIDGET RACING? Written by Dave Argabright and Mike O'Leary. Ralph Potter, former long time USAC car owner says "The cost of racing is so astronimical, I just don't want to put the money into it anymore. I don't know who wants to spend $100,000 (on a midget team) to win $2,000." Apparently, though, despite what you've read here so far, the 2008 midget community is immune to all of this. It's business as usual with all the midget orgs with the exception of ARDC which recently voted down the Esslinger engine and previously outlawed the new generation Fontana also. By the way, a recent ad in NSSN says that Fontana costs $37,000 and Fontana says you need this engine to win!!! Even the Wisconsin midget org membership keeps voting in the tire monopoly. And I just read a press release that a Tulsa midget office is being "flooded" with entries for a midget show. So... does anybody have the phone number of the financial advisor of the midget community??

12/7/08, 2:23 PM	#3 Re: Financial Adviser's Phone Number Please?
Joey Woods Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 573	Thats your best one yet Don. IMO :respect:

12/7/08, 2:57 PM	#5 Re: Financial Adviser's Phone Number Please?
JstAbvVMC Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 272	Don I see your point, but I don't think you see the big picture. Racing is a very very expensive hobby/life that people choose to participate in. In my 30 plus years involved in racing I can not remember a time that the cost or racing was not an issue. It has always been that way and I'm willing to bet that it always will be so. So, on this day I choose not to complain, but to be very thankful that I and my entire generation are privilaged to enjoy the sport we love so much given the sacrafice of so many in WWII. I guess I look at things a little different, "Damn glad to be here, SIR!" Just my two cents Don, no disrespect meant at all.

12/7/08, 3:28 PM	#6 Re: Financial Adviser's Phone Number Please?
DonMoore10 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,474	Well I certainly respect ur opinion, thanks. You may not have a choice if you want to go racing or not soon. As of 2008, midget racing has dried up here. Do you have a suggestion on how midget racing is going to be revitalized here in Ohio for example? Attica Raceway Park - Midget Racing GONE Fremont Speedway - Midget Racing GONE Limaland Speedway - Midget Racing GONE Toledo Speedway - Midget Racing Gone Mansfield Speedway - Midget Racing GONE Lakeville Speedway - Midget Racing GONE Columbus Motor Speedway - Midget Racing GONE And I could name you 15-20 tracks that have eliminated midget racing in Ohio in the last 50 years. On the plus side we have Tony Barhorst promoting indoor racing at Columbus and Toledo.

12/7/08, 6:51 PM	#8 Re: Financial Adviser's Phone Number Please?
Heromaker Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 332	I am not here to discount what you are saying DM10, but I will say just two small things to disagree with. Since the articles you are quoting the midget community is using a spec tire that is harder than what we used to run, and the Esslinger engine you think is killing midget racing is probably one of the cheapest (for the lack of a better term) to run in a year. All I am saying DM10 is.... it may be too far gone from where it used to be and I don't ever know if it could get back to being the family/hobby sport it used to be.

12/7/08, 7:38 PM	#10 Re: Financial Adviser's Phone Number Please?
DonMoore10 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,474	At least there seems to be some sort of plan in the works for the economy.. AND.. officials are admitting there is a problem. A far cry from the midget orgs in this country which are driven by big business deals that have nothing to do with the welfare of the particpants. Business as usual with these people. Selling a logo and a brand is their main priority.