[DAD]

Originally Posted by gearguy Our rules package includes provisions for cycle powered chain drive cars. go to www.Illiniracing.com for the rulebook. There is a member/schedule meeting every January in Joliet that welcomes potential teams. Our rumored 2013 slate includes Grundy, Rockford, Sycamore, and maybe APS in Wisconsin. CS

Read the rules they are about 15 years behind the times for motorcycle engines. My 1000cc is red lined at 14000 rpm's. The newer 1500 cc motor I was thinking about is red lined about 12000 rpm's. That is how they make those tenny tiny valves work to keep up with them big old large cubic inch engines. These rev limits are set at the factory.

Honest Dad himself

[Roy Bleckert]

Originally Posted by gearguy So what OEM motor would you try? Over the years our members have tried Saturns, Toyotas, BMWs, Subarus, and others. As I said, the modern OEM motor is severely undersquare for emission purposes. I've looked at all of them I can get data on and run them through my DeskTop Dyno. If there is a better 2.4 liter out there than the Honda or Ecotec it would surprise me. Chuck Schultz

Have not looked @ your rules yet but the less of em the better !

One of em you mention is way oversquare @ HP is not everything .... One of my theory's is build the engine to make the car handle better

DAD is really ONIT with the chain drive motorcycle engine deal

[gearguy]

Yes the Subaru is way oversquare but is also pretty heavy and resisted the efforts of some very smart guys to make it a reliable midget motor. IIRC there were two of them for sale on here about 4 years ago at a very attractive price. Already in midget trim too after some Indy area racing. What ever became of them?
Power isn't everything. Our rules package aims for 215 peak HP.

CS

[DAD]

Originally Posted by gearguy Yes the Subaru is way oversquare but is also pretty heavy and resisted the efforts of some very smart guys to make it a reliable midget motor. IIRC there were two of them for sale on here about 4 years ago at a very attractive price. Already in midget trim too after some Indy area racing. What ever became of them? Power isn't everything. Our rules package aims for 215 peak HP. CS

Well The late model Motorcycle is good for between 215 hp for the 1000 CC motor to about 245 or so for the larger motor in racing form on Methanol. But they don't even start to make any power at all until after 10000 rpm's, that makes the 10500 limit a bit low for the newer motors. I would think your rules date back to the old 12000 cc days before electronic fuel injection. That number is about right for a 1200 cc oil cooled Suzuki with an after market ignition module. If we could tweak that rule just a little or even leave it out.

I'm from Kentucky if you want to be a "Handy Caper" do it how we do, do it with weight. Then in theory at the end of the race all 20 cars will come across the finish line side by side, that would be one neat race.

Honest Dad himself

[PatrickMead#13]

Originally Posted by DAD Well The late model Motorcycle is good for between 215 hp for the 1000 CC motor to about 245 or so for the larger motor in racing form on Methanol. But they don't even start to make any power at all until after 10000 rpm's, that makes the 10500 limit a bit low for the newer motors. I would think your rules date back to the old 12000 cc days before electronic fuel injection. That number is about right for a 1200 cc oil cooled Suzuki with an after market ignition module. If we could tweak that rule just a little or even leave it out. I'm from Kentucky if you want to be a "Handy Caper" do it how we do, do it with weight. Then in theory at the end of the race all 20 cars will come across the finish line side by side, that would be one neat race. Honest Dad himself

You just described my setup to the "t" 1127 oiled Suzuki with dyna and I cut it off at 9500....

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[polecar]

my question is, what would the cubic inches need to be for a DOHC to be competitive? on the national level.

[Roy Bleckert]

Originally Posted by polecar my question is, what would the cubic inches need to be for a DOHC to be competitive? on the national level.

DOHC Stock block/head EFI no rev limit @ least 2.5 liter/153 c.i. & 1,000 # car weight (same # as a VW engine per USACrules) should be close with current USAC engines

[17racer]

This seems to have wandered off topic... and Don Moors hasnt yet pointed it out yet. The key here is rules.... and interpretation & enforcement.
Nobody in the national midgets sees a need for a DOHC engine, given the rules stacked against it. If a guy wants a national motor capable of winning races... right now that is #1... Toyota... #2 Esslinger #3Fontana???? Dont recall a Mopar W-9 winning this year.... but Mopars market share has been slipping... hence the OHC motor. Stewarts Chevrolet motor won a race... maybe 2 all year?
So what is the driving force of this discussion???? little guys cant or wont spend $34000 for a new untested piece? or now a W-9 is going to be $8500 because big teams are going to want the newest 'legal' mousetrap???
National guys dont car about affordiblity... they care about winning. buying the advantage is what they do....

This is sure to piss some off...

[DAD]

Originally Posted by 17racer This seems to have wandered off topic... and Don Moors hasnt yet pointed it out yet. The key here is rules.... and interpretation & enforcement. Nobody in the national midgets sees a need for a DOHC engine, given the rules stacked against it. If a guy wants a national motor capable of winning races... right now that is #1... Toyota... #2 Esslinger #3Fontana???? Dont recall a Mopar W-9 winning this year.... but Mopars market share has been slipping... hence the OHC motor. Stewarts Chevrolet motor won a race... maybe 2 all year? So what is the driving force of this discussion???? little guys cant or wont spend $34000 for a new untested piece? or now a W-9 is going to be $8500 because big teams are going to want the newest 'legal' mousetrap??? National guys dont car about affordiblity... they care about winning. buying the advantage is what they do.... This is sure to piss some off...

The topic was I think is Gary Stanton has come up with what looks like a very competitive new engine for midget racing. It looks beautiful and I can guarantee you it will be very fast and hard to beat. The other guys are now playing catch up for the rest of the 2013 season.

I can't stand these hijackers, but they sure keep things rolling along don't they.

Honest Dad himself

[17racer]

So what happens to the $8500 mopar W-9's??? cant beat the top motors any more? need inches? Not long ago.... Gaertes suffered the same fate... and now some clubs are allowing them inches to get back to being competative at a bargain cost. Sure is cheaper than 18 to 20K for a fresh Esslinger or Fontana. Anyone know what the going rate is for a fresh Toyota??? and certainly less than $34k for a new Mopar. Wheres it end??