[Motormasher]

Once you get lapped you are no longer scored because you are 1 lap down and cannot improve your position.

It has nothing to do with sending a lapped car to the tail on a restart, you line up where your lapped at yes.

I believe 2 people have proven my theory Sacha.

It will be interesting to see what big names go to Kokomo this Sunday.............They will wait on a car to change a flat.

We still don't know what the payoff is......??? Why don't they post it like Dave Rudisell does?

[wtvwrocks]

[QUOTE=Tim;131915]

Originally Posted by wtvwrocks Actually that's not quite correct. Let's say you are running 12th and get lapped on the 10th lap of the A - positions 1-11 are now on the lead lap, you are one lap down. On lap 15 - the cars in positions 2,4 & 5 crash and are out of the race - let's pretend there was no passing and everyone else finished in the order you were running. The finish would be: 1,3,6,7,8,9,10,11, 12 (you) then positions 2,4 & 5. That's how the payout would be determined. That's how it has been figured as long as I've known, and nothing changed this year with regards to how lapped cars are finished. On the board, laps completed are noted with the official finish - so you can see if someone dropped out how many laps they completed and if you are a lap car how many laps you completed. I hope that clears it up. Sacha[COLOR="Black"] Sacha, In your example would I get paid for 9th or 12th? Tim Simmons

9th - you finished 9th - you get paid for the position you finished in, lead lap, lap car or fallout.

There are several scenarios where you might think that you are in 9th or somewhere else and that is your position on the track but not your scoring order. Go back to my example:

12 cars - 30 lap feature

On lap 10 car# 12 gets lapped - running order on the track is 1, 12, 2,3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11
On lap 15 car # 2,4 & 5 crash and are out - running order on the track is now: 1,12, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11
On lap 20 car # 10 gets lapped - running order on the track is 1, 10, 12, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11

Official finish would be: 1st place 1; 2nd place 3, 3rd place 6, 4th place 7, 5th place 8, 6th place 9, 7th place 11, 8th place 10 (cause he was only down one lap and lapped most recently) 9th place 12, 10th place 2, 11th place 4, 12th place 5

Is it starting to make sense? So even though the 12 car is running in 3rd on the track he is a lap down at the end and would officially finish after the cars on the lead lap - the 10 car would finish in front of him because both cars were down one lap and the 10 car was running in front of the 12 car at the checkered.

When you get into situations sometimes with cars still running and being 2 laps down then you have to figure that in also. This is why at Haubstadt where there can be a lot of lap cars we have one person that is the only job they have to watch the lap cars and keep track of them (who are they and how many laps down) when you calculate the finish you go through all cars to determine if they are on the lead lap. Fall outs are added from the bottom (last place) up depending on what lap they went out on.

Clear as mud, right? Want to come help with the 50 lapper???

---------- Post added at 02:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Motormasher Once you get lapped you are no longer scored because you are 1 lap down and cannot improve your position. It has nothing to do with sending a lapped car to the tail on a restart, you line up where your lapped at yes. I believe 2 people have proven my theory Sacha. It will be interesting to see what big names go to Kokomo this Sunday.............They will wait on a car to change a flat. We still don't know what the payoff is......??? Why don't they post it like Dave Rudisell does?

I don't know who you have talked to but as long as Ive been scoring I continue to score every car until they crash or finish lap car or not.....and there have been times (very very rare) that a lap car has improved it's position.....I'm not sure how your theory has been proven or maybe I'm not understanding your explanation. Always a finish shows on the board the cars on the lead laps, then lap cars, then fall outs.....it shows the laps completed....so if we were going to finish the lap cars after the fall outs it would reflect that on the board, and obviously just because a lap car is running 2nd we both know he's not in 2nd place so we wouldn't pay him accordingly.

Maybe I'm confused but I have always scored every car every lap because you never know what could happen....

[Tim]

[QUOTE=wtvwrocks;131945]

Originally Posted by Tim 9th - you finished 9th - you get paid for the position you finished in, lead lap, lap car or fallout. There are several scenarios where you might think that you are in 9th or somewhere else and that is your position on the track but not your scoring order. Go back to my example: 12 cars - 30 lap feature On lap 10 car# 12 gets lapped - running order on the track is 1, 12, 2,3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 On lap 15 car # 2,4 & 5 crash and are out - running order on the track is now: 1,12, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 On lap 20 car # 10 gets lapped - running order on the track is 1, 10, 12, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11 Official finish would be: 1st place 1; 2nd place 3, 3rd place 6, 4th place 7, 5th place 8, 6th place 9, 7th place 11, 8th place 10 (cause he was only down one lap and lapped most recently) 9th place 12, 10th place 2, 11th place 4, 12th place 5 Is it starting to make sense? So even though the 12 car is running in 3rd on the track he is a lap down at the end and would officially finish after the cars on the lead lap - the 10 car would finish in front of him because both cars were down one lap and the 10 car was running in front of the 12 car at the checkered. When you get into situations sometimes with cars still running and being 2 laps down then you have to figure that in also. This is why at Haubstadt where there can be a lot of lap cars we have one person that is the only job they have to watch the lap cars and keep track of them (who are they and how many laps down) when you calculate the finish you go through all cars to determine if they are on the lead lap. Fall outs are added from the bottom (last place) up depending on what lap they went out on. Clear as mud, right? Want to come help with the 50 lapper??? ---------- Post added at 02:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 PM ---------- I don't know who you have talked to but as long as Ive been scoring I continue to score every car until they crash or finish lap car or not.....and there have been times (very very rare) that a lap car has improved it's position.....I'm not sure how your theory has been proven or maybe I'm not understanding your explanation. Always a finish shows on the board the cars on the lead laps, then lap cars, then fall outs.....it shows the laps completed....so if we were going to finish the lap cars after the fall outs it would reflect that on the board, and obviously just because a lap car is running 2nd we both know he's not in 2nd place so we wouldn't pay him accordingly. Maybe I'm confused but I have always scored every car every lap because you never know what could happen....

Thanks, Sasha,

I didn't see the 12 cars - 30 laps scenario in the original example.

And, No - I have no desire to come help score the 50 lapper. I've tried scoring before and gained immediate respect for anyone who does that job. Knowing me, I'd probably get caught up just watching the car my son drives and forget about the rest. But, that's just me.:2: Ya'll do a magnificently difficult job, but usually only hear about it from the negative side. I'll tell you that I appreciate your efforts.

Tim Simmons

[Rpracing1]

Not sure why Motormasher is chiming in now on this subject. Just trying to stir up sh*% as usual. Don't think he would be there regardless.

Scorers have a difficult and thankless job. Known Jan and Bob for years.

[Eagle14]

LOOK OUT.... KEYBOARDMASHER..I MEAN MOTORMASTERBATOR is out high on his horse with his hard on for MSCS....Have you been in a position to be scored as a lap car in a MSCS race this year? Just curious... I know your riding on on your heat race romp at LPS... but ***... get off the hard on for MSCS and race some of there shows.. oh wait wait.. to many big names... forgot. Can't compete.. WAIT WAIT.... LORDY LORDY its not at Bloomington Speedway.... HARD ON GROWING.... KATIE BAR THE DOOR......it costs to much money for Motormasher to compete because MSCS is for the big guy....... THEN TAKE A HINT..... SHUT UP AND RACE or GET OVER IT.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIID = YOUR HARD ON FOR MSCS

[ThrottleHead]

Originally Posted by Eagle14 LOOK OUT.... KEYBOARDMASHER..I MEAN MOTORMASTERBATOR is out high on his horse with his hard on for MSCS....Have you been in a position to be scored as a lap car in a MSCS race this year? Just curious... I know your riding on on your heat race romp at LPS... but ***... get off the hard on for MSCS and race some of there shows.. oh wait wait.. to many big names... forgot. Can't compete.. WAIT WAIT.... LORDY LORDY its not at Bloomington Speedway.... HARD ON GROWING.... KATIE BAR THE DOOR......it costs to much money for Motormasher to compete because MSCS is for the big guy....... THEN TAKE A HINT..... SHUT UP AND RACE or GET OVER IT. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIID = YOUR HARD ON FOR MSCS

Beautiful!!!!!!! Couldn't have said it any better Trent!!!

[cowboyhar69]

Here's a racer from Byhalia, Mississippi (Jan Howard) wanting to race with the mscs....asking a question about what 2nd thru 20th pays but I haven't seen any answer to his question.

Tim Wolffrum aka Cowboy

One of the biggest misconceptions about payoff "errors" is that a lot of people don't bother to check the finish to see where they actually finished. I ALWAYS write down the finish and ensure I get paid for where they have me finishing. Just because you think you finished 8th, you might have been lapped, there might have been cars you thought were lapped that weren't, any number of reasons and honestly it's not the officials' responsibility to look after YOUR car, especially if you think there's a problem.

Originally Posted by cowboyhar69 Here's a racer from Byhalia, Mississippi (Jan Howard) wanting to race with the mscs....asking a question about what 2nd thru 20th pays but I haven't seen any answer to his question. Tim Wolffrum aka Cowboy

Maybe if he handled it professionally by making a phone call or sending an email, he'd get an answer instead of pursuing some shadowy agenda by making a public uproar about it on a message board. Jason Adams posts here regularly, he's not that difficult to get a hold of.

Payouts are hidden and I do not understand why?? There is a very simple way to end all of this and post the damn payouts!!! I love the shows of the MSCS and like hearing Jason Adams call the race but c'mon guys post the payout so these drivers that want to attend can make plans to be there!

Maybe Robert Ballou said it all correct in Terre Haute earlier this year? Maybe this is the reason for the dwindling car counts??

Jason Watt

Never scared to post my name to a post!!

[MemphisMissile46]

Guys, I'm not sure what uproar I caused by asking a simple question? More specifically I was wondering about the next two $10,000 to win shows. Like I said, we just want to see. Jason did answer about the start money, which is what I was wondering, but I had two other races in mind. No harm done to either side I'd say.

Oh our shop gate was torn off last night, these jackasses dragged our truck and trailer away from the fence with a wrecker, stole our push mule, large tool box and a borrowed open car hauler to take their new prizes home with them!! Don't you just love a thief??

Seriously, if Jason or someone with MSCS would message or call me I'm more than thankful. You can contact me, Rick at 901-647-8283 after 2 pm or Jan Howard at 901-262-1884.

Rick Holder
Howard Racing