[slide22]

I had an Idea to help the guys with the older engines, while still keeping a stock engine idea. It didn't really fly with Jerry and alot of people though.

Any engine made before a certain year, 2000,2001ish, can open. Do anything to them. Any engine made after that time period has to be a stock bore & stroke 1000cc engine. No ZX12 allowed.

Anyone who has one of these older engines have any info when they made the switch to building 1000cc engines?

[Bradleyracing86]

If there is no 1200's allowed in a 1200 club, then it will morph itself into MMSA like club. ???

[dctd05]

Originally Posted by slide22 I had an Idea to help the guys with the older engines, while still keeping a stock engine idea. It didn't really fly with Jerry and alot of people though. Any engine made before a certain year, 2000,2001ish, can open. Do anything to them. Any engine made after that time period has to be a stock bore & stroke 1000cc engine. No ZX12 allowed. Anyone who has one of these older engines have any info when they made the switch to building 1000cc engines?

The answer is no 1000cc motor is allowed to me stroked or bored. Stock zx12 only (although that would require tech on the zx12.) The $800 alky conversion includes the map needed to make it run. Also this crap about stock ignition is a joke. I can send a stock zx10 ecu off and get an alky map loaded in it, change the ignition curve, change the rev limit, and put a form of traction control in it. Now with that being said I can also control the wheel spin as well as that form of traction control with my right foot. I have also watched a guy out run a midget an a 1/4 mile track with a f2 honda motor in a mini sprint wingless, but if the same guy that was driving the mini sprint was in the midget he would have lapped the field. My point is you can't make a slow guy fast with more motor, but you can make a fast guy a helluva lot faster with more motor. It is all about relativity. by the way I don't have a dog in this race because mine is sitting in the garage for sale because the money spent compared to the "fun" and money received dont equal justification any longer. Keep the cost down and fun up and minisprint racing will grow.

[mini27]

Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86 If there is no 1200's allowed in a 1200 club, then it will morph itself into MMSA like club. ???

Hit the nail on the head. so get over it. i run both with my r1 and run up front in both. its a 1200 club not a stock 1000 club. we already have a stock 1000 club,amsa is a 1200 club should remain that way. if i wanted to run a BONE STOCK zx12 in run amsa i cant because guys with a 1000s started crying.

[TNR22]

Originally Posted by dctd05 The answer is no 1000cc motor is allowed to me stroked or bored. Stock zx12 only (although that would require tech on the zx12.) The $800 alky conversion includes the map needed to make it run. Also this crap about stock ignition is a joke. I can send a stock zx10 ecu off and get an alky map loaded in it, change the ignition curve, change the rev limit, and put a form of traction control in it. Now with that being said I can also control the wheel spin as well as that form of traction control with my right foot. I have also watched a guy out run a midget an a 1/4 mile track with a f2 honda motor in a mini sprint wingless, but if the same guy that was driving the mini sprint was in the midget he would have lapped the field. My point is you can't make a slow guy fast with more motor, but you can make a fast guy a helluva lot faster with more motor. It is all about relativity. by the way I don't have a dog in this race because mine is sitting in the garage for sale because the money spent compared to the "fun" and money received dont equal justification any longer. Keep the cost down and fun up and minisprint racing will grow.

I don't know Bill I have seen a lot of these guys run mid pack for two seasons, then get these big motors built and go straight to the front. I guess I can understand why they don't want to lose their crutch. I like the MMSA concept they just need to do a better job checking the motors, and get some races closer to us.

[dctd05]

Originally Posted by TNR22 I don't know Bill I have seen a lot of these guys run mid pack for two seasons, then get these big motors built and go straight to the front. I guess I can understand why they don't want to lose their crutch. I like the MMSA concept they just need to do a better job checking the motors, and get some races closer to us.

I guess that is the problem with the bigger tracks when the cars have a lot of bite. If the track slicks off what I said is correct but if the track keeps bite in it there is no replacement for horsepower, because anybody can set up a car to run on a tacky track. If the amsa doesn't control costs there wont need to be any arguing about amsa being like the mmsa because there wont be a amsa. I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone but something does need done to keep mini sprints racing in the area.

[TNR22]

Originally Posted by dctd05 I guess that is the problem with the bigger tracks when the cars have a lot of bite. If the track slicks off what I said is correct but if the track keeps bite in it there is no replacement for horsepower, because anybody can set up a car to run on a tacky track. If the amsa doesn't control costs there wont need to be any arguing about amsa being like the mmsa because there wont be a amsa. I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone but something does need done to keep mini sprints racing in the area.

You are totally right. But what do I know I have only been around this stuff for 20+ years

I think that all of the misconception on the cost of the alcohol conversion is the cost of the aftermarket air box and stacks people are running, I knoe I paid $700 for my airbox. I did my injection for around $500. It may be a thought to do away with the aftermarket airbox, just a thought.

[slide22]

The people arguing against the stock engine/1000cc only engine rule are the ones who weren't around when AMSA almost vanished. I remember when I was little the AMSA came to 35 and brought 25-30 cars for 2 different races. The next season, went to Waynesfield and they only brought about 12-13 1200's. The same thing will happen again if something isn't done to curb the costs. If we were running small tracks, there wouldn't be a debate. But Lawrenceburg is a big, engine eating track. When the track dries out, a big engine really isn't that much of a help. But how many times has it been slick this year? I can think of about 2 times. Even IF a big engine isn't a whole lot of an advantage, it creates a mindset in a guy who can't afford a big engine that he can't compete with the big spenders.

Like I said earlier, I don't think a completely stock 1000cc only series is the way to go. However, something needs to be done before it gets out of hand. ZX12's need to be banned completely. Almost 20 more HP, and close to 30 ft/lbs of torque more than a stock R1. That is a HUGE avantage, and it if it is continued to be allowed, it will cater to the guy who wants to spend 7-8,000 on an engine. And if one or two guys have one, then everyone else will get one too.

Tire rule would help to fix all of this, but the low budget guy complains because he has to buy 1 tire, and the bigger budget guy complains because he can only run 1 tire.