AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

Fans and drivers alike....would you guys like to see some changes to bring out some of the cars that are just sitting idle? My dad and I were talking it over and I'm just interested to see what everyone thinks. Sprint car racing, or any racing is by no means a poor man's game but it seems like as the poor get poorer in today's world...only the rich are able to race. We are big fans of the winged pavement stuff up by us, and were debating what changes could be made to bring some of the guys just sitting around out. I know a fair amount about the workings of the teams and budget needs because I used to wrench on a few. I'm no expert by any means but I just wanted to see what the opinions were (without starting a huge angry debate). Basically what we said in a nutshell is the Must See deal seems great because of the pay, and the American Racer tire seems to last great. The bad part is the little guys don't seem to be able to come out for Must See because the big tracks and rules allow the huge engines to run away with things. The AVSS/HOSS deal is good, but the tires are big money and you need to buy alot more of them; plus they don't pay the guys as well. Do you think Must See would benefit from evening the playing field somehow on the motors, or would maybe AVSS/HOSS making some kind of tire rule be good for them? We just thought if one of those series tried one of those things, maybe some guys would come back out.

If I was gonna change something I'd come up with a formula for some kind of cheaper motor like a 23 deg head steel block that gets a weight break maybe. Make big motors run 1700lb and the new option 1600lbs or something. You're never going to win though...people would be flipping out about adding weight. Rules are a neverending bi*** fest.

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Re: AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

You mean Don Wilshe is not/or doesn't have the answer?????

Re: AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

Not sure of the best cost cutting idea, but my guess is tires. Still confused how these clubs run for 60% of the purse that USAC pavement cars raced for and they continue to race with full fields and TV while the USAC pavement sprints went belly up?? My guess would be leadership ??

American racer tires, 23 degree heads, no wings. And add a sensible tire rule and you will have a more level playing field.

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Re: AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

Must See already has a weight break written in the rule book.

Race cars with engines larger than 360 CID must weigh a minimum of 1600 pounds with
driver, after the race. Cars with cast block iron engines 360 CID or less must weigh 1500
pounds with driver, after the race, (excludes aluminum block engines).

bg

Re: AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

what do the supers weigh?

Re: AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

i think most supers are right around 1800 lbs.

I can tell you that 100 pound weight break for the 360s is a joke. I would take the 100 pounds over the loss of 200 plus horsepower and the higher roll center of the cast iron engine.

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Re: AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

That's cool that there already is a weight break I didn't know that. What do you think the real solution is for the weight/hp rule? Is 50lbs really enough, or would you need 100+?

Re: AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

I looked at their rules for MSXRSS....it's 100lb weight break actually. There ya go, slap one together and give it hell. I am building a small block supermodifed, it gets a 200lb weight break which should be pretty significant. Actually....try putting together an sb2 if you can still make the weight break.

Re: AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

Nerffan, correct me if I am wrong, but are you testing the waters for a new "limited" series. It sounds like you are trying to get feedback from people interested in starting maybe a support series for one of these groups.

Re: AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

OK.. Here is an answer.

99% of the 360 cars that got 150 pound weight break with driver could not make the 1450 lbs.
100% of the cars could not make a 200 pound weight break. The asphalt car is just alot heavier
to start with than a dirt car!

D

Re: AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

1 car, 1 engine! Why do I want to hit Winchester against a team that has 4 cars, 6 engines, 13 new tires. Must see did the same thing USAC did. You need to buy all different tires. Even if they were the same I could not afford the Extra $2,000 to get new. Back to the original post, how many pavement cars are just parked?

Hardest tires available, no wings. And increase the payout for anyone using a dirt car or steel block

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Re: AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

Originally Posted by snoopy:
1 car, 1 engine! Why do I want to hit Winchester against a team that has 4 cars, 6 engines, 13 new tires. Must see did the same thing USAC did. You need to buy all different tires. Even if they were the same I could not afford the Extra $2,000 to get new. Back to the original post, how many pavement cars are just parked?

You don't need to spend $2,000 for tires. You could get 5 tires for less than $1,000. Maybe get someones take offs from the prior week. FYI - The track record that was set at Bristol in 2011 (152 mph) was on a right rear that had two practices and a heat race from Winchester earlier in the year and a least 3 practices at Bristol! Oh, by the way, we also won the feature on that tire! And we used it in 2012 for a couple of practices and heat races too.

Re: AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

Originally Posted by 50mcrewguy:
You don't need to spend $2,000 for tires. You could get 5 tires for less than $1,000. Maybe get someones take offs from the prior week. FYI - The track record that was set at Bristol in 2011 (152 mph) was on a right rear that had two practices and a heat race from Winchester earlier in the year and a least 3 practices at Bristol! Oh, by the way, we also won the feature on that tire! And we used it in 2012 for a couple of practices and heat races too.

Oh this too, we only have one car and one engine.

Re: AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

I think Must See is a good series with their tires and how much they pay. I just don't think some sprint car teams can even compete with the huge motors on the big tracks. I think they should offer a REAL weight break for smaller motors, that teams could actually make. Why not bump the weight for the big motors higher, so the small motors can actually make the weight break?

Re: AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

:47:I respect what the 50 has done, and if I had your program I might feel differently. My point is why buy both tires. With a job the Must see schedule would be difficult. From where I am many AVSS Friday shows will not work out. Heck $1,000 is about my years budget. LOL

Re: AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

Originally Posted by nerffan:
I think Must See is a good series with their tires and how much they pay. I just don't think some sprint car teams can even compete with the huge motors on the big tracks. I think they should offer a REAL weight break for smaller motors, that teams could actually make. Why not bump the weight for the big motors higher, so the small motors can actually make the weight break?

Fact is, it does not matter what you do, the money game will never leave. You can make it a 500lb difference. What are the money teams going to do, they are going to go turn a small motor into a big one. I really get tired of seeing people say little teams and big track don't work because of money. My uncle started taking me to Winchester in the early 90's. We always showed up hoping to see 20 cars. I remember seeing several usac races there with less than 20 cars. Go to Anderson, there would be 30 to 40 cars. It was a fact then, and it is a fact now, several guys won't race a track like Winchester. The 50 team is one of my favorites. Anytime they show up, they are threat to win. How old is that car?

Re: AVSS/HOSS/MUST SEE scene, changes?
 

Originally Posted by 767:
Fact is, it does not matter what you do, the money game will never leave. You can make it a 500lb difference. What are the money teams going to do, they are going to go turn a small motor into a big one. I really get tired of seeing people say little teams and big track don't work because of money. My uncle started taking me to Winchester in the early 90's. We always showed up hoping to see 20 cars. I remember seeing several usac races there with less than 20 cars. Go to Anderson, there would be 30 to 40 cars. It was a fact then, and it is a fact now, several guys won't race a track like Winchester. The 50 team is one of my favorites. Anytime they show up, they are threat to win. How old is that car?

Not as old as the car Troy DeCaire won a feature in last year Haha!

I respect the 50m because they are still in the mind set of "You show up at the track to win races."

Anyone else miss the days when everyone showed up at a race track to win? Not to see who can spend the most $ to be in the seat?