Promoters can not win!
 

25 posts equal 25 different opinions.
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Re: Promoters can not win!
 

Originally Posted by MORGAN:
25 posts equal 25 different opinions.
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This pisses me off almost as much as the people who complain about everything! People who suggest that no matter what happens, we should just sit there like good little boys and girls and say nothing. That paying customers shouldn't be entitled to have an opinion or to express that opinion, on an open forum, like this one. Promoters, as a general rule, are pretty savvy people. They know how to take multiple pieces of feedback and glean from that the useful information. Including not giving much weight to the individuals who are perpetually unhappy with everything.

Jerry

Let's keep count---that's two posts and two different opinions.
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Re: Promoters can not win!
 

Originally Posted by Jerry Shaw:
This pisses me off almost as much as the people who complain about everything! People who suggest that no matter what happens, we should just sit there like good little boys and girls and say nothing. That paying customers shouldn't be entitled to have an opinion or to express that opinion, on an open forum, like this one. Promoters, as a general rule, are pretty savvy people. They know how to take multiple pieces of feedback and glean from that the useful information. Including not giving much weight to the individuals who are perpetually unhappy with everything.

Jerry

Woah, Mr. Shaw! I am impressed! By the way, it was a pleasure to meet you at Terre Haute. I'm wondering if promoters from other regions watch the chatter on here for tips that might help at their own tracks, since we are fighting over seats here at times and they might have problems filling their own during their biggest shows. I am very interested in how the 'broken ladder' to Indy from sprints has impacted the racing of other regions, or if it has at all. Any lurking promoters/track owners from other regions out there care to comment?

P.S. From here on out, I'll refer to the 'broken ladder' as 'Road to Indy construction work detour', that's got a more positive ring to it, don't ya' think?

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

:44:

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

Originally Posted by deannalynn:
P.S. From here on out, I'll refer to the 'broken ladder' as 'Road to Indy construction work detour', that's got a more positive ring to it, don't ya' think?

If history repeats itself, in a couple hours you will decide to refer to it as something different.

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

I'm going to have to agree with Morgan on this one. Promoters are screwed from all directions. With the drivers and crews half are griping if the rules aren't strictly enforced and tech isn't done religiously if their car is 100% by the rules and they are getting their butt handed to them every week. As soon as they try to enforce the rules or put new rules in place the other half start to scream. Half want affordable, equally matched cars and the rest want to be able to buy a victory. One half of the fans want to see "headliners only" and voice this opinion LOUDLY, the other half want to see the "main event" but also enjoy watching their friend\neighbor\relative run a "support series" (a term that chaps my backside to begin with but that is another soap box). Half the crowd wants to be done by 8PM, the other half want a late night of racing and hanging out. Even track prep (which I am yet to see a promoter in a water truck or tractor) gets them ripped apart, and if a mistake is made in the first prep or the track degrades over the night GOD FORBID they get the equipment out and try to fix the problem because then everyone gripes about the "tractor show", but at the same time raise a stink if the track conditions provide for less than perfect feature races. There is no way for the promoter to win. You couldn't pay me enough to do that job and constantly be under fire from someone and to see my best intentions constantly ripped apart in a public forum because they can't please all of the people all of the time. Look back through some old posts and you will see promoters painted as anything from inept morons to near criminals with no consideration that they DO have the best interests of the fans and drivers in mind but at the same time have to run a PROFITABLE business and are human and therefore NOT PERFECT. I'm not saying that there is no room for improvement and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, after all everything can be improved but the level of open hostility towards how every track is discussed by one party or another is off-putting to me as a driver so I can't imagine how it feels to the promoters. For a community of like minded individuals and race fans there sure is a lot of negativity thrown around here on a regular basis if things aren't 110% up to someone's standards. Discourse and differing opinions are all a part of life, but why can't we all just get along? Lets be thankful that promoters are willing to take on this thankless job and do what they think is best for their track, be thankful that drivers are willing to show up to the tracks and make the sacrifices they do to put on an entertaining show for the fans and help the promoter reach their financial needs regardless of what class they can afford to run or what type of car they prefer to drive, and be thankful for the fans that show up so us drivers have a reason to do what we do and to help put money in the promoter's pocket (remember, like it or not racing is a business). We are all in this together and it takes all 3 parts to make racing work. Seems to me we should be banding together in a more productive way to make sure racing survives in these uncertain times rather than driving a larger wedge between all parties involved.

PS- You had better believe I am going to blame the promoter at WRP when it is too hot to even put on my helmet without working up a sweat this weekend though! :)

From the size of the crowds over the past week or so, I would say they're winning....
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I started this subject, but McInturff did an excellent job of explaining what a problem promoters have.
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Re: Promoters can not win!
 

Ok went to the races Sat night took my quad to help others who don't have one. Get wenched at by track official cause I pushed a heat 2 car up when the last 2 of heat 1 were being pushed off. The smell in the mens room was enough to gag a magot & filthy.:18: Place looks like it hasn't seen paint since it was built. But has a new concession stand & a covered area to sit in. Track was hard slick dusty, a few of the top 10 in points didn't show up to race. Wonder why:11::11::11;
Now at home 357 channel remote controlled big screen TV, pool, A/C, pool table, frig full of food & cold drinks that aren't over priced, comfy recliner, spent $50 bucks on gas getting there & back, plus a meal. Now tell me Mr promoter? Why should I come back if you don't want to take care of your place??:deadhorse::11;

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

And if you look at Bad Dad's post, there are defiantly times where the promoter isn't necessarily doing a stellar job and this too needs to be addressed. My post spoke in generalities of the vast majority (in my opinion) of promoters and with any average some end up above the "acceptable" range and some below. You will always end up with a few bad eggs too. The one part of it I don't agree with is the "screw you, why should I come back" attitude. I tend to be more of a "lets address these issues and see if we can resolve them" kind of guy, but that is just my approach, it doesn't work for everyone.. I think in these cases we need to try and effect changes at the tracks, if you get nowhere move up the food chain. Only after the channels are exhausted do you say "screw you guys, I'm going home". After all, the sad truth is that there is just no reaching some people. Part of my "race track utopia" view is that we all work together which includes promoters listening to legitimate concerns on the part of fans, drivers and crews which are presented in a rational way. Not to say that I don't loose my temper and have my go to h3LL attitude moments, but in the end that gets us nowhere. Calm down, take a deep breath and try to work it out. In no way trying to slam you Bad Dad, just presenting another viewpoint to keep some dialog going.

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

As I type this, "MORGAN" has a total of 3 posts as a member of our not-always-so-happy family. And they are negative (or agreeing with someone who agreed with his first negative post). Whew!
If you noticed that I failed to welcome "MORGAN" to IOW, please be aware that it was not an oversight on my part.

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

Do I think there is a thin line between promotors getting KA-CHING Or KA-CHUNK.

WELL HELL YES!

If the movie was good, Do you pay to see it again or buy it when it comes out on DVD? If it was bad, Do you tell your friends it sux?

I feel the same about racing. It its good, I tell people, I go back.

If its bad, I give em another chance but mention why in hopes that something can be done to improve it.

Find me the Cecil B. Demile of racing, Oh wait, Earl Retired :5:

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

:13:

FWIW the low post count arguement on any message board is weak... I've posted all sorts of nonsense and im still a kook!
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Re: Promoters can not win!
 

Originally Posted by MORGAN:
25 posts equal 25 different opinions.
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I completely disagree.

Message boards and social media just make it easier to expose the piss poor ones. Which I'm A-ok with. Personally I've stopped supporting most of the tracks in my state because none of them like to run a honest to goodness show. They are constantly undercutting the drivers and the fans and I'm not going to spend the money I bust my keyster working for on these clowns. I'd rather travel a couple times a month and hit the Kokomo, Fairbury, Putnamville, Lawrenceburg, Brush Creek, and other I'm sure I've left out.

Folks say well, if you don't support your local tracks you won't have any. Personally I'm okay with that. What am I going to miss out on? A dustbowl racing surface, 5-7 classes of racing, a cut payout? Good riddance.

I leave with this message to promoters and track owners: Do your job and the rest will take care of yourself.

If you're not sure what your lacking go sit in your grand stand. There are going to be a thousand other "promoters" sitting around you. They are your best friends and your worst nightmare. Bring some thick skin, objectivity, and a note pad.

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

The primary purpose of every successful entertainment venue is to make people gather on the property and buy food. This rule of thumb may not be true in such things as theatrical plays or concerts in government subsidized buildings but is 100% true in almost every privately-owned facility.

That being said, all our racing activities are a means to attract participants and spectators into the gates where they will buy the hot dogs and Cokes. The contest between the racers is secondary to attracting the most number of people at the least cost.

This is why the "support show" is so vital to many tracks running the open wheel events. The "support show" increases the number of people through the gate and provides the race organizer with some flexibility in the program shhould their be a low turn-out, inclement weather, driver's strike, etc.

If a promoter could make a living off of just bombers and street stockers he would do so and avoid the griping, sanction fees, martinets and wanna-be superstars that seem to follow many of the "headliner" classes. The promoter, however, needs to provide his fans with a show that has some variety. This is especially true in tracks that are not close to a large population base where travel distance is minimal.

A promoter does not NEED a sprint car show, or a late model class, or the national travelling series. He NEEDS something that will bring people in the gates... pit gate and ticket gate.

He needs a track surface adequate for the classes he chooses to run. NOT to satisfy the whims or sensibilities of someone who once almost sorta came close to getting a chance to be considered for an IRL seat in New Hampshire or his car owner who sits in the air-conditioned RV and is upset about the dust obscuring his view.

He needs sufficient seating to satisfy his base customers. Suites are nice but if the track's in farm country a lot of folks can handle the sun and weather.

He needs sufficient restroom facilities to handle his crowd's needs for a 2-4 hour show and still remain in local code compliance.

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

Originally Posted by Pat O'Connor Fan:
As I type this, "MORGAN" has a total of 3 posts as a member of our not-always-so-happy family. And they are negative (or agreeing with someone who agreed with his first negative post). Whew!
If you noticed that I failed to welcome "MORGAN" to IOW, please be aware that it was not an oversight on my part.

The low count means nothing . How many post did you start with? he may be like me I just looked at this site for a couple years before I joined ( am sure theres some who hate that I did) but everybody starts somewhere. not looking for a argument just saying. :2:

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

Originally Posted by Torry:
The contest between the racers is secondary to attracting the most number of people at the least cost.

Or, a track promoter can take a lesson from the guy who built the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and gave birth to the Indy 500, Carl Fisher. Carl Fisher was a master of promotions, not just racing, but all kinds. He's the same guy who built Miami Beach and attracted the wealthiest people to live there. He had no need to attract people to buy food, that's not what racing was about for him. It was more of a 'field of dreams' because he truly loved racing and automobiles. He put his heart into what he did, and the Indianapolis 500 was born. He was born poor, became very wealthy and charitable, and he died poor, because life was about the journey, not the destination. I suggest any promoter who needs a litte inspiration check out his wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_G._Fisher

If you have time, read a copy of his biography, 'Fabulous Hoosier'.

His passion for racing was unquestionable, and he never worried about how many hot dogs would be sold at his race.

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

this is realy not about promotors winning or losing but more about the internet,before this became popular even if in i was not racing we would go and watch,no matter how hot or how farit was now since we have the internet facebook,twitter, if im not going to race just sit by computer and check for updates and im not they only one im sure so thats what promotors are really up against, also rain checks if the local track gets rained out, im not going to take a chance comming to your track to race or watch when you have a two week rain check policy the only reason we came was because our normal track rained out,so you should honor rain checks all year if you realy want more buts in the stands or cars in the pits . jmo:22:

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

Originally Posted by Torry:
The primary purpose of every successful entertainment venue is to make people gather on the property and buy food. This rule of thumb may not be true in such things as theatrical plays or concerts in government subsidized buildings but is 100% true in almost every privately-owned facility.

That being said, all our racing activities are a means to attract participants and spectators into the gates where they will buy the hot dogs and Cokes. The contest between the racers is secondary to attracting the most number of people at the least cost.

This is why the "support show" is so vital to many tracks running the open wheel events. The "support show" increases the number of people through the gate and provides the race organizer with some flexibility in the program shhould their be a low turn-out, inclement weather, driver's strike, etc.

If a promoter could make a living off of just bombers and street stockers he would do so and avoid the griping, sanction fees, martinets and wanna-be superstars that seem to follow many of the "headliner" classes. The promoter, however, needs to provide his fans with a show that has some variety. This is especially true in tracks that are not close to a large population base where travel distance is minimal.

A promoter does not NEED a sprint car show, or a late model class, or the national travelling series. He NEEDS something that will bring people in the gates... pit gate and ticket gate.

He needs a track surface adequate for the classes he chooses to run. NOT to satisfy the whims or sensibilities of someone who once almost sorta came close to getting a chance to be considered for an IRL seat in New Hampshire or his car owner who sits in the air-conditioned RV and is upset about the dust obscuring his view.

He needs sufficient seating to satisfy his base customers. Suites are nice but if the track's in farm country a lot of folks can handle the sun and weather.

He needs sufficient restroom facilities to handle his crowd's needs for a 2-4 hour show and still remain in local code compliance.

The idea of multiple support classes is logically applicable in the case of regular shows, I do not believe it fits with so-called "headliner" shows. The vast majority of people attending ISW are there for the sprint cars as evidenced by the geographical make-up, campers, etc.. One support class is more than adequate for these "specials"

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

McInturff not a problem, but it's about the 6th time in the last year I've seen track officials over do their authority w/ people:26:. Just nothing but a bully w/ an "Officials shirt on, don't gimmie that lame excuse about being an official I was one.:47: Never did I treat people like that, Rick Ferkel thought I did a good job. NO EXCUSE for rudness, you put on an officials shirt it's a bulls eye. Spent a lot of years wrenching on sprints, they demand a lot of time & money to be treated rudely?:39: The guys that are left still allow me to walk in their trailer talk w/ me & joke around. They still come to me w/ problems & their's nothing I can do.:11: Remember the post about how other organizations handle this? Well that cost me 3 or more friendships. But problem was solved. Just not going to spend money where it's not fun. :7:

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

Lanier Speedway in Braselton, GA has quite a different policy...

http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/archives/50571/

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat O'Connor Fan View Post
As I type this, "MORGAN" has a total of 3 posts as a member of our not-always-so-happy family. And they are negative (or agreeing with someone who agreed with his first negative post). Whew!
If you noticed that I failed to welcome "MORGAN" to IOW, please be aware that it was not an oversight on my part.


I wish Dingaling only had a total of 3 posts.

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

Originally Posted by apexonephoto:
lanier speedway in braselton, ga has quite a different policy...

http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/archives/50571/

yikes!

Re: Promoters can not win!
 

Originally Posted by Bad Dad 54:
McInturff not a problem, but it's about the 6th time in the last year I've seen track officials over do their authority w/ people:26:. Just nothing but a bully w/ an "Officials shirt on, don't gimmie that lame excuse about being an official I was one.:47: Never did I treat people like that, Rick Ferkel thought I did a good job. NO EXCUSE for rudness, you put on an officials shirt it's a bulls eye. Spent a lot of years wrenching on sprints, they demand a lot of time & money to be treated rudely?:39: The guys that are left still allow me to walk in their trailer talk w/ me & joke around. They still come to me w/ problems & their's nothing I can do.:11: Remember the post about how other organizations handle this? Well that cost me 3 or more friendships. But problem was solved. Just not going to spend money where it's not fun. :7:

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