Changing Flats
 

I don't understand why tracks or sanctioning bodies are imposing a rule that U can't change a flat tire in a feature and return to finish.

I realize we can't hold up the show, but on 1st lap crashes, why not? It isn't fair to work all week and drive to a track and make the show and then have a flat (or something else minor) and then be told to load it up and go home.
I wanted to see Jon Stanbrough in that $10k show at Haubstadt a couple of years ago and there has been other situations just like that where as a fan I felt cheated, let alone how Jon and his crew felt.

Since when has pit stops became illegal in racing?:7: As for open reds, when there gonna be long ones what the hell does that hurt? Gives crew a chance to check over the car, have a chance to comunicate with your driver and make sure he knows where to line up on restart.

Re: Changing Flats
 

We are being cheated as a fan:14:

Re: Changing Flats
 

Several years ago at Calistoga, a guy pitted about mid-race to change his RR tire; he ended up winning the race after coming from the rear! By putting on a new RR tire, he had fresher/newer rubber that allowed him to pass everyone who were racing on older tires. So he gained an advantage by pitting and changing the tire. And it was a big advantage, especially on a tire-eating track

I would think that the only way that sanctioning bodies and track can prevent the "new rubber" performance advantage is to not allow any team to change a tire during the race, especially at those tracks that are known to wear tires out. Now, if all cars changed tires at the same time so no one car gained the advantage of new tires, well then........And almost everyone knows the advantage of new tires....

So while most of us love to see a car charge through the field. it should be a level playing field, don't you think?

Re: Changing Flats
 

Originally Posted by sprinter25:
Several years ago at Calistoga, a guy pitted about mid-race to change his RR tire; he ended up winning the race after coming from the rear! By putting on a new RR tire, he had fresher/newer rubber that allowed him to pass everyone who were racing on older tires. So he gained an advantage by pitting and changing the tire. And it was a big advantage, especially on a tire-eating track

I would think that the only way that sanctioning bodies and track can prevent the "new rubber" performance advantage is to not allow any team to change a tire during the race, especially at those tracks that are known to wear tires out. Now, if all cars changed tires at the same time so no one car gained the advantage of new tires, well then........And almost everyone knows the advantage of new tires....

So while most of us love to see a car charge through the field. it should be a level playing field, don't you think?

Devil's advocate for a moment: since when was strategy not a part of racing? Silver Crown race last year at DuQuoin, Darland pitted on a yellow to take a new right rear; that was an exciting final handful of laps.

Re: Changing Flats
 

Originally Posted by JordanBlanton:
Devil's advocate for a moment: since when was strategy not a part of racing? Silver Crown race last year at DuQuoin, Darland pitted on a yellow to take a new right rear; that was an exciting final handful of laps.

All that kind of strategy on a sprint car race will do is drive up the price of racing for everyone. Strategy is a big part of SC racing; you need to make your stuff last 100 laps. And Darland had an "unfair" advantage; suppose everyone had changed a tire there. While the concept is far-fetched, it certainly would have eliminated the new tire advantage that Dave had...and SC teams could stop the practice of changing tires and winning if everyone stopped to change tires once anyone stopped to change tires...

But "strategically" changing a tire in a 30 lap sprint car race will only force others to do the same, just driving up the price of poker for everyone. Win at all costs???? Man, I hope not......

Re: Changing Flats
 

i think that hunter should have been able to change his tire since there was no laps recorded..

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I have never understood why a organization would have a race event and then come up with rules to keep its participants from racing.

If repairs can be made that do not hold up the show then I say why not ? No 2 lap rule if you are not ready by the time the flagman gives the one to go (1 lap later 50 laps later) then you do not go. If it takes an hour to get the line up right then so be it if the next yellow is a quicky yellow so be it. As the costs continue to rise for these teams to participate I am in favor of what ever it takes (within reason) to keep these teams on the track with at least an opportunity to earn something for their effort.

Tim Clauson

Re: Changing Flats
 

Originally Posted by tim clauson:
i have never understood why a organization would have a race event and then come up with rules to keep its participants from racing.

If repairs can be made that do not hold up the show then i say why not ? No 2 lap rule if you are not ready by the time the flagman gives the one to go (1 lap later 50 laps later) then you do not go. If it takes an hour to get the line up right then so be it if the next yellow is a quicky yellow so be it. As the costs continue to rise for these teams to participate i am in favor of what ever it takes (within reason) to keep these teams on the track with at least an opportunity to earn something for their effort.

Tim clauson

amen :6:

Re: Changing Flats
 

Starting this past weekend, We at Lawrenceburg Speedway now allow sprint cars to exit and changed tires under yellow, in the feature only. Thanks, Dave Rudisell

Re: Changing Flats
 

Originally Posted by Dave Rudisell:
Starting this past weekend, We at Lawrenceburg Speedway now allow sprint cars to exit and changed tires under yellow, in the feature only. Thanks, Dave Rudisell

hopefully more tracks will follow on this rule.. way to go dave!!

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I don't know if this is a good rule or not but I'm sure there are pro's and con's in every rule. I just like and organization to be consistent with their rules and the MSCS has done a great job with it. Last year at the 10k race at Haubstadt the MSCS sent JJ to the hauler after he got out of his vehicle to inspect damage. The rule states that if you exit your vehicle you are done. As much as I hated to see JJ finish the race like that it was the right thing for the MSCS to do (same deal with Hunter). Weather you agree or disagree with a rule you should respect how the MSCS has stood behind their rules and regulations and treated everyone equal.:22:

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I have another question. Since no laps were scored and Hunter wasn't to be allowed back on, why didn't Chase Briscoe, as the alternate, be allowed to start in Hunters place?

Re: Changing Flats
 

:6::8::8::33:

Originally Posted by dave rudisell:
starting this past weekend, we at lawrenceburg speedway now allow sprint cars to exit and changed tires under yellow, in the feature only. Thanks, dave rudisell

---------- Post added at 08:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 PM ----------

I was at a daytime DO fest some years back at Bloom and at one point or another EVERY SINGLE CAR BLEW THE RR. What would that feature have been like if no cars finished? I kinda think the one minute rule under reds work pretty well. At some tracks Reds can be Ten minutes or so from a flip. If they aren't interfeering with the safety crew I don't see why a car couldn't be adjusted or a tire changed. I know some are concerned with insurance and stuff. Thats not my call. I just go to see as many cars RACING as possible. But its fact that a car after heating up the tire will bleed off a few pounds when sitting idle thus restarting on under inflated tires increasing the risk of Blowout.

Chuck, who really gets annoyed when 8 of 20 cars finish. Its less than most heat races.

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I wonder how tire compound would play into this. I wouldn't think that a brand new DT-3 would have a massive advantage over, say about, a 15 lap old DT-3. And, that's assuming that the team in question that would be changing said tire, has a brand new anything already mounted up and ready to go.

Re: Changing Flats
 

Dave,

Thanks for changing the rule. I remember many times last year cars getting right rear flats and being done for the night after they travelled so far to race and entertain the fans. Glad they have the chance to change tires and get back out there and charge to the front.

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Originally Posted by 3Cfan:
I have another question. Since no laps were scored and Hunter wasn't to be allowed back on, why didn't Chase Briscoe, as the alternate, be allowed to start in Hunters place?

The alternate is only in play until the race starts. Once the green was dropped alternate was out of play and rightly so. When the alternate does run the race they get the money for the position they finish and the car that couldn't start gets the money for the alternate position. If Chase had gotten to come in on the second start, Hunter would have had a smaller winnings to go along with his flat tire which would add insult to injury. I would like to have seen them have an opportunity to change it, but they are consistent on that rule at least. My personal thoughts are you should be able to change a tire, or make a minor repair IFFFF you don't hold up the race. Once the farrel flag is displayed if you're not on track in line tough. Just my .02

---------- Post added at 08:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Honest-Sam:
I wonder how tire compound would play into this. I wouldn't think that a brand new DT-3 would have a massive advantage over, say about, a 15 lap old DT-3. And, that's assuming that the team in question that would be changing said tire, has a brand new anything already mounted up and ready to go.

I agree totally. Heck a new DT-3 doesn't have much advantage over a 50m lap DT-3 on a non-rubber down track. I ran many of them turds for and five features, and won on them

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Way to go Dave, you really seem to have your ^(&* together.:8:

I know I am not gonna pull my car 4 hrs to any track that won't allow me to change a flat tire. I am just gonna go the closest track to home. And I bet thats what a lot of other guys are gonna do to.

Re: Changing Flats
 

There were a number of instances Saturday night at Haubstadt where the cars took so long to get lined back up that changing a tire would have been very doable without delaying anything. I don't have a stake in what is going on except watching the race, so it's easy for me to have an opinion, but I would like to see drivers have the opportunity to race.

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Originally Posted by Motormasher:
Way to go Dave, you really seem to have your ^(&* together.:8:

I know I am not gonna pull my car 4 hrs to any track that won't allow me to change a flat tire. I am just gonna go the closest track to home. And I bet thats what a lot of other guys are gonna do to.

So can we all be certain that you'll be pulling your name from the list of drivers running the SCORA series since their rules also prohibit a car from re-entering a race once it's left the track?

Re: Changing Flats
 

Originally Posted by Dave Rudisell:
Starting this past weekend, We at Lawrenceburg Speedway now allow sprint cars to exit and changed tires under yellow, in the feature only. Thanks, Dave Rudisell

Dave, I highly suggest you guys keep an eye on people that leave the track and head back to the pits running 100mph to get their tires changed. I would really hate to see people getting mowed down by a sprintcar hurrying back to his pit area.

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Originally Posted by Big Willy:
So can we all be certain that you'll be pulling your name from the list of drivers running the SCORA series since their rules also prohibit a car from re-entering a race once it's left the track?

I will not go to Jacksonville IL, Kamp or Kankakee, IL if thats the rule.

I am not driving over 2 hours to any track to just run a heat race because of a flat tire.

Re: Changing Flats
 

Originally Posted by Dave Rudisell:
Starting this past weekend, We at Lawrenceburg Speedway now allow sprint cars to exit and changed tires under yellow, in the feature only. Thanks, Dave Rudisell

Questions???

So the tire does not have to be flat?

How much time is allowed for a tire change?

Do officials monitor these situations and make sure that no other changes are made?

How much time will this add to a feature if several cars do this at the same yellow flag period?

Does the tire have to be completely flat?

On which lap of the yellow period do you have to come in do do a pit stop?

Is this front or rear tires?

If race drags out due to multiple cars doing pit stops for tires, will a fuel stop be implemented if necessary?

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I think last weekend the announcer stated that the team had two complete yellow flag laps from the time he entered his pit. This may have been a MASS or NRA rule though I can't remember.

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Originally Posted by Rpracing1:
Questions???

So the tire does not have to be flat?

How much time is allowed for a tire change?

Do officials monitor these situations and make sure that no other changes are made?

How much time will this add to a feature if several cars do this at the same yellow flag period?

Does the tire have to be completely flat?

On which lap of the yellow period do you have to come in do do a pit stop?

Is this front or rear tires?

If race drags out due to multiple cars doing pit stops for tires, will a fuel stop be implemented if necessary?

And this is the sliipery slope that allowing tire changes and allowing cars to exit the racing surface and then re-enter.

I guarantee that someone will get the short end on the call here, and scream bloody murder that he didn't get the same time as others. The no tire change rule, while strict, can at least be administered equally...and easily...

Any other way, and it becomes a judgement call, which just opens it up to interpretation and mistakes and perceived favoritism.....

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Originally Posted by motormasher:
way to go dave, you really seem to have your ^(&* together.:8:

I know i am not gonna pull my car 4 hrs to any track that won't allow me to change a flat tire. I am just gonna go the closest track to home. And i bet thats what a lot of other guys are gonna do to.

you probably be lucky to get yours out of the yard :3::3:

Re: Changing Flats
 

Originally Posted by sprinter25:
And this is the sliipery slope that allowing tire changes and allowing cars to exit the racing surface and then re-enter.

I guarantee that someone will get the short end on the call here, and scream bloody murder that he didn't get the same time as others. The no tire change rule, while strict, can at least be administered equally...and easily...

Any other way, and it becomes a judgement call, which just opens it up to interpretation and mistakes and perceived favoritism.....

Exactly!

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JMO, but you should get two laps under caution once you hit the "work area" as that is where the work is to be done, not at your trailer, if you go to the trailer your done & if takes more than two laps to get the cars lined back up after the yellow then your work time should be extended by the same time. But once the cars are lined up & ready to race and the two laps have been given work ends & race continues. Seems pretty cut & dry to me. On the west coast, all tracks & sanctioning bodies that I attend abide by this rule with no detriment to the efficiency that fans expect the show to be run at. Again JMO

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I believe the Burgs rule is they aint waiting for ya. Your fixed and ready before the one to go is given. The simple solution to somone flying thru the pits is a complete disqualification, Winings and return to the track forfieted.. Idle speed only.

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Originally Posted by SHORTBUS:
you probably be lucky to get yours out of the yard :3::3:

I was thinking more like the pawn shop:5:

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Originally Posted by Leftcoastmudeater:
JMO, but you should get two laps under caution once you hit the "work area" as that is where the work is to be done, not at your trailer, if you go to the trailer your done & if takes more than two laps to get the cars lined back up after the yellow then your work time should be extended by the same time. But once the cars are lined up & ready to race and the two laps have been given work ends & race continues. Seems pretty cut & dry to me. On the west coast, all tracks & sanctioning bodies that I attend abide by this rule with no detriment to the efficiency that fans expect the show to be run at. Again JMO

You got it right !

Re: Changing Flats
 

I would like to know what came 1st, the fans or the racers?

No matter what your answer is, if we keep disqualifying cars before the race even starts the fans are going to start getting discouraged when their favorite drivers can't race or there is just a few cars left at the end of the feature and it isn't a good finish.

I also don't think that this should be limited to just changing a flat, that was just the topic. Anything that can be repaired quickly should be allowed. It doesn't matter what it is, you still have to start on the tail IF you can make it back out. Once again I ask, why are we taking pit stops out of racing?

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Motormouth think about this... A sanctioning body has to be able to enforce rules fairly at whatever venue they may be racing. TSS has ample push vehicles to get multiple cars off the track and a very safe work area for crews to change tires or possibly make repairs. What would happen in the event the track didn't have a safe work area or multiple push trucks to be able to get everyone back to racing in a timely fashion? What would happen if weather was in the area and the main was not able to get in because they waited for cars to be repaired and pushed off? Although these scenarios may not ever play out the traveling series must insure their rules can be enforced equally at all venues. Imagine the irate fans ready to tear off somebody's head if the event got rained out because the track waited on cars getting repairs. If you really want to stir the pot, bring up the issue of putting starters on these cars to allow the program to move more quickly and allow more possiblities for being able to make repairs and return to action. I love "non-wing" sprint racing but these cars having to be pushed off is a joke. I wish MSCS or USAC would pay a bonus to any car utilizing a BERT style sprint car set up with a starter and/or offer a substancial weight break for cars that can fire up on their own and drive away.

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BIG WILLY, they have cars with starters and there called Late Models and Modifieds and Street Stocks. Don't come to a sprint car race if you don't like it because they have to be pushed off. :13:

SPRINT CARS SHOULD NEVER HAVE STARTERS ON THEM!!! THATS WHAT MAKES THEM BETTER THAN THE OTHERS!!!

SPRINT CARS ARE AWESOME!!!:9: