To bash wings on this site ? I double checked the sites home page and it does say nonwing, right there in big letters. Seems like that should make it ok to take polite shots on the worse thing to ever happen to a sprintcar.

Well the sites name is Indiana Open wheel. So based just on the name alone any open wheel car and or series racing in Indiana should be talked about. Hence the reason there is a Modified section of the website. While I will agree the majority of the wing races do not produce side by side racing, they can still be quite enjoyable especially on small tracks. I grew up going to Butler Motor Speedway in Quincy, Michigan, where they race winged 410's on a weekly basis, Before I moved to Indiana, I didn't even know they raced with out the wings and it took me a while to adjust. Now I prefer non-wing over wing, but any and all types of sprint car discussion should be allowed on the website with minimal bashing.

Maybe Bill should make an icon for wing posts that way those who do not like the wings can just skip over it.

Personally I dont think any type of racing should be bashed. Just be thankful we still have racing of any kind to watch.

:99:::99::.....had too sorry

I felt the same way about wing cars for years. After a particularly awful Outlaw show at Manzy,I swore I'd never attend another wing show,Outlaw or not! Started saying, "Wings are for Maxi-Pads", and meant it! Then,earlier this year,it all went out the window!! Kevin Montgomery got the ASCS National tour season opener booked at Canyon Speedway Park for a 2 night show in March. My first thoughts were just like Lloyd's (see above post,LOL). But,wanting to support our local track,having a night off from work and spending time with good friends were too much of a draw,so I reserved my seat (Thanks,Jeannie!). Was I ever surprised!! Those 360's,on Canyon's reconfigured 3/8th,were some of the best racing I've seen thus far this year! 2 and 3 wide into the corners,passing all through the field, lap times in the high 11's and watching our local boys (Rick Ziehl...killer with or without the garage door!) run with the national group were just a few of the highlights for me! Our local ASCS Southwest region club also put on a good show in April,albeit with a slim car count due to competing wing shows in Tucson and Las Cruces. My first love will always be Non-Wing racing,where all the driver has is a right rear and a big pair,but I learned that a good wing show on a good track can be a close second!

Sorry to break it to you Hoosiers, outside of Indiana not many moderately hardcore race fans know what non-wing or USAC is. As unpopular as that statement is, it’s the truth. No offense but I really don’t see a whole lot of excitement in non-wing mini-sprints and TQ’s as full fledged sprints and midgets. Many of the regular contributors on this site are from outside of Indiana. California is a really sad state of affairs in all forms of racing. If you need state ID to register on this site, you can delete my account right now.

Even winged racing is even very segmented by surface, series and motor size. I like non wing as well, but look at the accomplishments of Tony Stewart. To only include his USAC career, tells me you are missing out on a whole lot of relevant excitement.

We get that you love non wing, but outside of ARDC and the Eastern Storm, there really isn’t much to see in PA is there? We pay $5.22 a gallon for gas where I live, if I limited my racing to non wing and a reasonable distance from home I would see one race a year, let’s hope it doesn’t get rained out. Aren’t you all about “freedom”.

---------- If It Has Wheels On It I And You Give Me The Chance I Will Race It -----------

It is hard to believe that anyone who reads I-O-W could be so prejudiced. If you put a race driver around any thing with wheels on it they will probably race it from tri-cycles, coaster wagons, motorcycles to even a few rental cars in Tulsa Ok.

I guess I'm a "Liberal Libertarion". I don't have the bucks or time to race what I want to race but I did find a nitch race car that allows me to race close to what I want to race and on my limited budget, I'm spending just a little over my head right now and having fun with my son doing it.
When we started It was all wings and nothing but wings and I grew to feel safe knowing my kid had that big old pillow over his head.

The track usually dictates whether or not a race will be follow the leader or a wheel banger 4 wide brawl, more so than whether or not you have a wing on top. Ask your self why have wings became so popular.. Does a USAC show pay as well as a World of Outlaw show,
Does USAC get as many paying people in the stands at a premium price, Does USAC have as many drivers with big time name recognition. If not why, and if this is the case what could USAC do to get back on top of it's game with race cars without wings. Did wings make the Outlaw's what they are today or was it something else, That is the big question.

Now back to Backit, It takes two different types of driving skills to be good at wings and non wings. It is pretty hard to switch back and forth between the two and that defines the driver almost like dirt and pavement. Very few people are masters of both.

I enjoy watching a true master work his trade in any form of racing. Wether it be Wing, Non-Wing, dirt or pavement. When they are good they make you think that hey I could do that. When they are bad you think to yourself W O W how can these guys do that I sure couldn't.

We lucked out again as Doug my son got older and wanted to experiment without wings we were hooked up with a group M M S A , run by Bill May. Bill had enough gumption to go in and sell non- wing mini sprint racing to some of the premier tracks around the mid-west. This was no easy task because we had sort of been type-cast as winged race car's and a lot of promoters really wanted wing shows.

After a couple of years of racing with and without wings I hope we have proven that we can put a good show on either way. I like racing without wings but if it comes down to the fact we need a wing to race well we will just put a wing on an "geterdone"!

Honest Dad himself

---------- Post added at 10:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 9:40 AM ----------

Did I mention with wings on our lap times were about a second faster than the 410 non winged sprints cars at the old Lawrenceburg track and this holds true for almost any track smaller than 1/3 of a mile.

Last year I went to the Joe James Pat O Conner memoral race at The big Salem high Banks. U S A C was not represented there but they did have winged sprints to put on the show. These guys drove that track like I have never seen it drove before. Some of the things they did would get a non winged driver killed. These guys would drop of the bank going into turn one hit the apex at the bottom and drive right back to the top coming out of two. Driver's have tried that in the past without wings and flew right over the back straight fence and into the tree tops. These guys put on one hell of a show. They kind of made the wingless guys who normally run this track in single file look bad. Maybe this old track was made for wings. If they would only get some east coast big block winged modified cars down there. That would be a race.

Honest Dad himself

Some of us poor geographically challenged folks have little choice as winged racing is was we've got. I’m not a WoO fan and don’t go to those show, but I will say I’ve seen some really good winged sprint shows here in central PA every year. The regular programs with no time trials, which use the handicap system, promote a LOT of passing. You start the fast cars mid pack every week and you’ll rarely see a follow the leader race here. With that said, one series that I do go out of my way to see is the Super Sportsman and they are winged cars although not sprints they do look a lot like them and they put on some fantastic racing!
Wingless is my first choice and I’ll be back out in Indiana again this summer, with a smile on my face from ear to ear!

I think there are plenty of websites for wings. Most people know this is mainly a sprintcar (no wings) website. Some wing guys have gotten on here and try to stir up a little controversy. Wings are fast, but an icon for that might be good.

i love racing as the sport over all else... Would I rather watch a non wing show... Yes, but they dont run ANY non wing stuff down here, hell im lucky if they even know what a sprint car is, with or without the wing... i have to drive over 3 and a half hours to get anywhere to see anything open wheel...