Stopping the erosion of car counts

SprintExaminer · 6/5/09, 1:46 AM

I put up the first of a series of articles designed to give ideas to race track promoters on how to improve shows for fans and drivers.

First up: how to deal with eroding car counts, including increasing car counts and what to do when they are low. Take a read and let me know your thoughts - I'm always looking for feedback.

Charles Nungester · 6/5/09, 8:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SprintExaminer

I put up the first of a series of articles designed to give ideas to race track promoters on how to improve shows for fans and drivers.

First up: how to deal with eroding car counts, including increasing car counts and what to do when they are low. Take a read and let me know your thoughts - I'm always looking for feedback.

With you on the spread the wealth.
Kinda with you on stretching the heats with less cars per heat. Id rather see two two heat segments with the second inverted. Feature lineup based on total point accumulation

Many tracks don't qualify, Sometimes I feel this hurts car counts as many teams like to qualify rather than chance.

Totally against you on the split up feature unless its twin 25s or something. Thats what Im there for and Its the main event to be run entirely at once.

I don't know too many sponsors paying hundreds of thousands except maybe a few top teams WOO mainly. Many teams would be happy with a tire sponsor, Help towards motor which can be one off deals or seasonal.

Im kinda with you on avoiding sanction fees. I almost guarantee you put up 5g to win on your own, you'll get a better field than say MASS series with careful planning to avoid cross scheduling.

Tracks working together? Sometimes I feel they are out to hurt the other with some of the schedualing and sometimes its just too many tracks running the same night period.

Some things I know that can and do help teams, Increase car counts.
Lap Money, Hard Chargers, Fan Contibutions. and increasing fan counts thru promotion and meet and greets. One of the neatest things I recently seen was a track opening the pits to fans from 5-6pm. Im sure it hurt pit sales a bit but gave fans a behind the sceenes view and chance to meet some of the people they come to see making it more likely to return knowing who their chearing for instead of THE BLACK CAR.

Chuck

LEADERS EDGE · 6/5/09, 8:49 AM

I honestly believe that one of the biggest problems facing racing today; is racing itself. What I mean is that there are now so many opportunities to race with all of the various classes and divisions that the one time fan base and and even the car base are now split up many times over.

People who used to come as fans with their 5 year old are now out racing with the 5 year old or the dad is running karts or mini-cups or 600's etc.

As far as sprint cars go; if you can't win with a 410 get a 360. If you can't win with a 360, get a 305. If you can't win with an open 305, get a spec. 305. If you can't win with a spec.305, get a mini or micro or a speedstr or a Ford Focus or a ..........the list goes on and on.

I think what a promotor has to do, and I say this with due respect to promotors because it is a thankless job that works you to death with very little payback, is run an honest show with a clean facility and you have to present races that will keep a fans interest. Sometimes, a weekly program loses it's luster even if it is a good one.

You also have to get the fans on your side by giving them the feeling that it is THEIR facility and they basically pay you to hold the keys and for the upkeep.

As far as the racer goes and car counts; you have to have a consistant track surface and a program that runs like clockwork. Sometimes; no amount of money(within reason) will sway a team away from a well run program. Just because you pay more money doesn't mean the car counts will be large if the track isn't on it's game.

Maybe a track promotor also has to see what the trends are concerning "feeder" series for his tracks main classes and they need to make sure they are on top of that trend and incorporate that series into their program. That keeps the new drivers and the younger members of the families that race at their facility coming back and not straying to somewhere else.

In Indiana, there is so much competition for Sprint cars on Saturday Night that it is amazing any of them get cars.

-Lawrenceburg is suffering a little because of the size of the new track. Many Saturday Night guys don't want to take the chance of hurting their motor or equipment by running there. Plus, many guys didn't want to dismount their DT3 RR and mount another style.(I believe that the RR Rule is changing though) By all accounts, it is great racing
and a first class facility so they have that in their corner.

-Putnumville used to be a huge car and crowd draw, but many teams don't feel the track offers a consistant surface and program and the fans complain about the amenities. It will take alot of money and goodwill to make both feel good about going there. They are located in the heart of Indiana sprint country though, so that helps them.

-Paragon was brilliant in realizing not all drivers race for money and some just like to race. By keeping an open tire rule and open rules period, they seized on the "Run what ya brung" atmosphere and by allowing all cars to start features, guys don't have to tell their buddies they missed the show and they are also less disheartened during the learning curve. Typically their car counts have been the biggest in the state with high forties and low fifties, but they have recently encountered some lower counts in the mid to high thirties. Some of that may be due to the last few years where they had more "special" shows where not everyone made a feature. Some of that is because of the SCORA sprint series that has taken a couple of their steel block cars and some of that is because of Danville,Il running sprints on Saturday Night.

-Danville,Il. has come in with a Sat. Night program that offers a consistant program at a good facility. They are also benefiting from lower travel costs due to fuel and they have the "New Kid at School" grace period where everyone is trying them out and seeing if they offer something better. Danville has drawn cars from all of the other tracks and a few cars here and there adds up. Their counts are in the mid thirties. So far they have been very popular, but some are complaining that they can't count on two grooves to race on.

-MSCS is a Indiana based series that offers a good payout for the winners and when they run Sat, Nights it often pulls two to five track regulars from all of the tracks listed above.

-Whenever USAC is racing they draw a few of the top Sat. Night guys as well.

As you can see that is just one night in Indiana Sprint racing and in all total you are looking at over 100 sprint cars racing in one night within a 125 mile radius of Indianapolis. That is alot of options and is great for the teams but not the promotors.

Joey Woods · 6/5/09, 10:48 AM

Go out and get yourself a racetrack. Run it for a couple of seasons and then write your article.

Dick Monahan · 6/5/09, 11:22 AM

I've only promoted a few special events, so I'm not expert, but one thing I've heard from a number of track operators is that if the cars don't come, neither do the people. The theory is that Joe Owner tells a couple of friends that he's not going to Local Speedway this week, they tell their friends, etc., etc., etc. Maybe Bob Owner does the same. The first thing you know there's a rumor that a bunch of cars aren't going, so some fans decide to take the week off. That's completely second-hand info, so take it for what that's worth.

SUPERDUKE · 6/5/09, 2:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leaders edge

i honestly believe that one of the biggest problems facing racing today; is racing itself. What i mean is that there are now so many opportunities to race with all of the various classes and divisions that the one time fan base and and even the car base are now split up many times over.

People who used to come as fans with their 5 year old are now out racing with the 5 year old or the dad is running karts or mini-cups or 600's etc.

As far as sprint cars go; if you can't win with a 410 get a 360. If you can't win with a 360, get a 305. If you can't win with an open 305, get a spec. 305. If you can't win with a spec.305, get a mini or micro or a speedstr or a ford focus or a ..........the list goes on and on.

I think what a promotor has to do, and i say this with due respect to promotors because it is a thankless job that works you to death with very little payback, is run an honest show with a clean facility and you have to present races that will keep a fans interest. Sometimes, a weekly program loses it's luster even if it is a good one.

You also have to get the fans on your side by giving them the feeling that it is their facility and they basically pay you to hold the keys and for the upkeep.

As far as the racer goes and car counts; you have to have a consistant track surface and a program that runs like clockwork. Sometimes; no amount of money(within reason) will sway a team away from a well run program. Just because you pay more money doesn't mean the car counts will be large if the track isn't on it's game.

Maybe a track promotor also has to see what the trends are concerning "feeder" series for his tracks main classes and they need to make sure they are on top of that trend and incorporate that series into their program. That keeps the new drivers and the younger members of the families that race at their facility coming back and not straying to somewhere else.

In indiana, there is so much competition for sprint cars on saturday night that it is amazing any of them get cars.

-lawrenceburg is suffering a little because of the size of the new track. Many saturday night guys don't want to take the chance of hurting their motor or equipment by running there. Plus, many guys didn't want to dismount their dt3 rr and mount another style.(i believe that the rr rule is changing though) by all accounts, it is great racing
and a first class facility so they have that in their corner.

-putnumville used to be a huge car and crowd draw, but many teams don't feel the track offers a consistant surface and program and the fans complain about the amenities. It will take alot of money and goodwill to make both feel good about going there. They are located in the heart of indiana sprint country though, so that helps them.

-paragon was brilliant in realizing not all drivers race for money and some just like to race. By keeping an open tire rule and open rules period, they seized on the "run what ya brung" atmosphere and by allowing all cars to start features, guys don't have to tell their buddies they missed the show and they are also less disheartened during the learning curve. Typically their car counts have been the biggest in the state with high forties and low fifties, but they have recently encountered some lower counts in the mid to high thirties. Some of that may be due to the last few years where they had more "special" shows where not everyone made a feature. Some of that is because of the scora sprint series that has taken a couple of their steel block cars and some of that is because of danville,il running sprints on saturday night.

-danville,il. Has come in with a sat. Night program that offers a consistant program at a good facility. They are also benefiting from lower travel costs due to fuel and they have the "new kid at school" grace period where everyone is trying them out and seeing if they offer something better. Danville has drawn cars from all of the other tracks and a few cars here and there adds up. Their counts are in the mid thirties. So far they have been very popular, but some are complaining that they can't count on two grooves to race on.

-mscs is a indiana based series that offers a good payout for the winners and when they run sat, nights it often pulls two to five track regulars from all of the tracks listed above.

-whenever usac is racing they draw a few of the top sat. Night guys as well.

As you can see that is just one night in indiana sprint racing and in all total you are looking at over 100 sprint cars racing in one night within a 125 mile radius of indianapolis. That is alot of options and is great for the teams but not the promotors.

remember i told you all there is too much sprint car racing weekly in indiana as well as midgets tq's stock cars! Just think about it! And the high cost of racing! Only the track and car owners can fix it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

24midgets · 6/5/09, 4:58 PM

buy only american made products.
Posted via Mobile Device

SUPERDUKE · 6/5/09, 6:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24midgets

buy only american made products.
posted via mobile device

really??????????

Motormasher · 6/6/09, 1:18 AM

I think its funny how many people on here keep saying "its better for the fans" but NOW your saying "eroding car counts" and wondering what promoters have to do to get cars to show up.

Bloomington, Gas City and Kokomo neither one seem to have a problem getting cars to show up and Danville seems to be alright on Sat too.

What do you think their doing thats so special???

I will let you guys try and figure it out............

SprintExaminer · 6/6/09, 4:08 AM

This is a good discussion - I'll try to hit some specific points later as I have to process everything.

One of the main ideas behind the series as a whole (and this first part specifically) is that I think the sense of history and tradition in short-track racing is one of its greatest assets and one of the things holding it back. Most promoters are very hard working, and this wasn't meant to knock anyone. But I think many of them also have the mentality of running their promotion a certain way because "that's how it's always been done" rather than being innovative. And where things are right now, with the economy and so much other competition for entertainment, you can't just sit back and throw up your hands and just say "well, that's the way it is."

Some of my ideas might be workable; others might be tougher to implement or just plain not be to people's likings (like the twin features). But - as a rule, and I know there are exceptions - promoters aren't trying anything, which frustrates me to no end. Since the profit-margin is razor-thin to begin with, I understand that promoters are gun-shy to take risks, but at some point, it's either take some chances and see if they work or die a slow, painful death.

6/5/09, 1:46 AM	#1 Stopping the erosion of car counts
SprintExaminer Inactive Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 18	I put up the first of a series of articles designed to give ideas to race track promoters on how to improve shows for fans and drivers. First up: how to deal with eroding car counts, including increasing car counts and what to do when they are low. Take a read and let me know your thoughts - I'm always looking for feedback.

6/5/09, 8:49 AM	#3 Re: Stopping the erosion of car counts
LEADERS EDGE Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 980	I honestly believe that one of the biggest problems facing racing today; is racing itself. What I mean is that there are now so many opportunities to race with all of the various classes and divisions that the one time fan base and and even the car base are now split up many times over. People who used to come as fans with their 5 year old are now out racing with the 5 year old or the dad is running karts or mini-cups or 600's etc. As far as sprint cars go; if you can't win with a 410 get a 360. If you can't win with a 360, get a 305. If you can't win with an open 305, get a spec. 305. If you can't win with a spec.305, get a mini or micro or a speedstr or a Ford Focus or a ..........the list goes on and on. I think what a promotor has to do, and I say this with due respect to promotors because it is a thankless job that works you to death with very little payback, is run an honest show with a clean facility and you have to present races that will keep a fans interest. Sometimes, a weekly program loses it's luster even if it is a good one. You also have to get the fans on your side by giving them the feeling that it is THEIR facility and they basically pay you to hold the keys and for the upkeep. As far as the racer goes and car counts; you have to have a consistant track surface and a program that runs like clockwork. Sometimes; no amount of money(within reason) will sway a team away from a well run program. Just because you pay more money doesn't mean the car counts will be large if the track isn't on it's game. Maybe a track promotor also has to see what the trends are concerning "feeder" series for his tracks main classes and they need to make sure they are on top of that trend and incorporate that series into their program. That keeps the new drivers and the younger members of the families that race at their facility coming back and not straying to somewhere else. In Indiana, there is so much competition for Sprint cars on Saturday Night that it is amazing any of them get cars. -Lawrenceburg is suffering a little because of the size of the new track. Many Saturday Night guys don't want to take the chance of hurting their motor or equipment by running there. Plus, many guys didn't want to dismount their DT3 RR and mount another style.(I believe that the RR Rule is changing though) By all accounts, it is great racing and a first class facility so they have that in their corner. -Putnumville used to be a huge car and crowd draw, but many teams don't feel the track offers a consistant surface and program and the fans complain about the amenities. It will take alot of money and goodwill to make both feel good about going there. They are located in the heart of Indiana sprint country though, so that helps them. -Paragon was brilliant in realizing not all drivers race for money and some just like to race. By keeping an open tire rule and open rules period, they seized on the "Run what ya brung" atmosphere and by allowing all cars to start features, guys don't have to tell their buddies they missed the show and they are also less disheartened during the learning curve. Typically their car counts have been the biggest in the state with high forties and low fifties, but they have recently encountered some lower counts in the mid to high thirties. Some of that may be due to the last few years where they had more "special" shows where not everyone made a feature. Some of that is because of the SCORA sprint series that has taken a couple of their steel block cars and some of that is because of Danville,Il running sprints on Saturday Night. -Danville,Il. has come in with a Sat. Night program that offers a consistant program at a good facility. They are also benefiting from lower travel costs due to fuel and they have the "New Kid at School" grace period where everyone is trying them out and seeing if they offer something better. Danville has drawn cars from all of the other tracks and a few cars here and there adds up. Their counts are in the mid thirties. So far they have been very popular, but some are complaining that they can't count on two grooves to race on. -MSCS is a Indiana based series that offers a good payout for the winners and when they run Sat, Nights it often pulls two to five track regulars from all of the tracks listed above. -Whenever USAC is racing they draw a few of the top Sat. Night guys as well. As you can see that is just one night in Indiana Sprint racing and in all total you are looking at over 100 sprint cars racing in one night within a 125 mile radius of Indianapolis. That is alot of options and is great for the teams but not the promotors.

6/5/09, 10:48 AM	#4 Re: Stopping the erosion of car counts
Joey Woods Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 573	Go out and get yourself a racetrack. Run it for a couple of seasons and then write your article.

6/5/09, 11:22 AM	#5 Re: Stopping the erosion of car counts
Dick Monahan Senior Member Race Count Last Year: 26 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,137	I've only promoted a few special events, so I'm not expert, but one thing I've heard from a number of track operators is that if the cars don't come, neither do the people. The theory is that Joe Owner tells a couple of friends that he's not going to Local Speedway this week, they tell their friends, etc., etc., etc. Maybe Bob Owner does the same. The first thing you know there's a rumor that a bunch of cars aren't going, so some fans decide to take the week off. That's completely second-hand info, so take it for what that's worth.

6/5/09, 4:58 PM	#7 Re: Stopping the erosion of car counts
24midgets Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 78	buy only american made products. Posted via Mobile Device

6/6/09, 1:18 AM	#9 Re: Stopping the erosion of car counts
Motormasher Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 980	I think its funny how many people on here keep saying "its better for the fans" but NOW your saying "eroding car counts" and wondering what promoters have to do to get cars to show up. Bloomington, Gas City and Kokomo neither one seem to have a problem getting cars to show up and Danville seems to be alright on Sat too. What do you think their doing thats so special??? I will let you guys try and figure it out............

6/6/09, 4:08 AM	#10 Re: Stopping the erosion of car counts
SprintExaminer Inactive Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 18	This is a good discussion - I'll try to hit some specific points later as I have to process everything. One of the main ideas behind the series as a whole (and this first part specifically) is that I think the sense of history and tradition in short-track racing is one of its greatest assets and one of the things holding it back. Most promoters are very hard working, and this wasn't meant to knock anyone. But I think many of them also have the mentality of running their promotion a certain way because "that's how it's always been done" rather than being innovative. And where things are right now, with the economy and so much other competition for entertainment, you can't just sit back and throw up your hands and just say "well, that's the way it is." Some of my ideas might be workable; others might be tougher to implement or just plain not be to people's likings (like the twin features). But - as a rule, and I know there are exceptions - promoters aren't trying anything, which frustrates me to no end. Since the profit-margin is razor-thin to begin with, I understand that promoters are gun-shy to take risks, but at some point, it's either take some chances and see if they work or die a slow, painful death.