[Lucky161]

I don't get to see any pavement sprints at all around here anymore. Nor do I get to see any USAC races either. I have seen winged sprints on pavement when I lived in Lubbock and they had a paved track. I've also made a trip to Winchester to see sprints, supers and midgets which was an awesome weekend. So it hurts me to see these small car counts for pavement sprints. I know, it's the economy. Well that is the reason/excuse for practically all low car count series I've ever heard of. Well I don't know much about fixing the economy, but I know what I'd do about the low car counts.

If I was say the promoter of Winchester, I'd tell USAC, bring me AT LEAST 24 cars. If you can't bring 24 cars, then just stay home. Then I'd run a race with Racesaver rules. Instead of 15 cars with 600+ hp, I'd rather have 40 cars with 400+ hp. 400 hp on 1500lbs race cars would put on a great show. Would the fans be able to tell the difference? Sure they would. They wouldn't be quite as fast and there would be a HELL OF A LOT MORE OF THEM!

[short track scott]

The issue of low cars counts on pavement has a lot to do not being a weekly division at any speedways. There aren't five tracks running pavement sprinters weekly, winged or not, 410, 360, 305, 262, 183 or whatever else is out there.

When WoO runs in areas with a strong weekly contingent, the local cars may not all flood the pits, but the top dogs usually show up.

USAC and MSCS draw good car counts because they too sanction at traditional weekly sprint car racing tracks. Some of these tracks produce USAC/MSCS quality shows weekly, without sanctioning.
Pavement cars, with or without wings, are a small fraction of the sprint car world. Here in Indiana/Michigan, we estimated less than 50 wing cars built and ready to race at the start of 2009. Splitting that pie between HOSS and Michigan's AVSS series, and subtracting 20% for 'stay homers', that left AT THE MOST 40 cars to run in 2 series on head to head scheduled events.

When non conflicting races were held this year, HOSS brought 26 cars to Fort Wayne and that many again to Angola. They had 23 at Anderson the same night USAC was at Salem.

Speaking of Anderson, how can there be 40+ cars for the Little 500 this year, and then almost no USAC cars in the race? They weren't all wing guys taking it off...

HOSS had 21 at Winchester last night. At least 4 cars stayed for today's USAC show. There were zero USAC regular cars winging up for last night.
Posted via Mobile Device

[RJ21]

Cost of converting from wind to non wing minimum, adding wing to nonwing not cheap for one race ??

[Lucky161]

Originally Posted by short track scott The issue of low cars counts on pavement has a lot to do not being a weekly division at any speedways. There aren't five tracks running pavement sprinters weekly, winged or not, 410, 360, 305, 262, 183 or whatever else is out there. When WoO runs in areas with a strong weekly contingent, the local cars may not all flood the pits, but the top dogs usually show up. USAC and MSCS draw good car counts because they too sanction at traditional weekly sprint car racing tracks. Some of these tracks produce USAC/MSCS quality shows weekly, without sanctioning. Pavement cars, with or without wings, are a small fraction of the sprint car world. Here in Indiana/Michigan, we estimated less than 50 wing cars built and ready to race at the start of 2009. Splitting that pie between HOSS and Michigan's AVSS series, and subtracting 20% for 'stay homers', that left AT THE MOST 40 cars to run in 2 series on head to head scheduled events. When non conflicting races were held this year, HOSS brought 26 cars to Fort Wayne and that many again to Angola. They had 23 at Anderson the same night USAC was at Salem. Speaking of Anderson, how can there be 40+ cars for the Little 500 this year, and then almost no USAC cars in the race? They weren't all wing guys taking it off... HOSS had 21 at Winchester last night. At least 4 cars stayed for today's USAC show. There were zero USAC regular cars winging up for last night. Posted via Mobile Device

Maybe I have the chicken before the egg. Yes, I realize what you are saying about filling in with locals for the traveling shows. So perhaps someone needs to start a Racesaver type series for weekly or bi weekly shows to build the class up. Of course highly restricted 305s would not be competitive with 410s or even 360s, but running against each other I think they would put on a great show. And this doesn't really address the small fields of 410s, it just gives the promoter and therefore the fans another option.

---------- Post added at 04:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

Originally Posted by RJ21 Cost of converting from wind to non wing minimum, adding wing to nonwing not cheap for one race ??

Some, myself included, think that in itself might be part of the problem. Cars so specialized that they can't reasonably convert from wing to non wing or dirt to pavement isn't such a great improvement to me. In our area the only series running non wing races is the Sprint Series of Texas and they run 3/4 of their races with wings. One driver in that series told me switching from one to the other for him was a matter of taking the wing off or putting it back on. Their races don't seem to suffer to me. I think they put on good shows both ways.

[LEADERS EDGE]

Low car counts on pavement......One word: Tires.

Also....I may be wrong but I believe that the USAC tire compounds are different from the Hoss or Avss series.

Pavement sprints have always been a specialized deal in terms there have never been that many regional pavement series.

[767]

Originally Posted by Lucky161 I don't get to see any pavement sprints at all around here anymore. Nor do I get to see any USAC races either. I have seen winged sprints on pavement when I lived in Lubbock and they had a paved track. I've also made a trip to Winchester to see sprints, supers and midgets which was an awesome weekend. So it hurts me to see these small car counts for pavement sprints. I know, it's the economy. Well that is the reason/excuse for practically all low car count series I've ever heard of. Well I don't know much about fixing the economy, but I know what I'd do about the low car counts. If I was say the promoter of Winchester, I'd tell USAC, bring me AT LEAST 24 cars. If you can't bring 24 cars, then just stay home. Then I'd run a race with Racesaver rules. Instead of 15 cars with 600+ hp, I'd rather have 40 cars with 400+ hp. 400 hp on 1500lbs race cars would put on a great show. Would the fans be able to tell the difference? Sure they would. They wouldn't be quite as fast and there would be a HELL OF A LOT MORE OF THEM!

its real simple, when usac had all the rich teams they started developing asphault and dirt cars. Usac never stopped this. This made it even harder for the local guys to compete with dirt cars. So they quit. As far as car count at winchester, for some reason they have always been low. I have attended 10-12 sprint races there in the 12 years. normally only see 18-22 cars. The most cars i have ever personally seen there was 33, and it got rained out that day. Specialized cars have killed the sport. The only way pavement racing survives is it has to be afordable to convert a car from dirt to asphault, and the car has to be competitive.

[snoopy]

Tires: Tires: Twice because 1 per corner will not be enough.

USAC also has permits and neck restraints

[Lucky161]

I agree. And I think Leaders Edge is on to something with the tires.

[Honest-Sam]

Low car counts on asphalt don't appear to be a new trend. Check out these results from Winchester from 1980(358ci motors) and 1981(410ci motors)

1980 - http://www.openwheeltimes.com/owt_results.asp?ID=91907
1980 - http://www.openwheeltimes.com/owt_results.asp?ID=91996
1981 - http://www.openwheeltimes.com/owt_results.asp?ID=90223

I wasn't racing yet in 1980(I was 12), so I don't know from personal experience what "kind" of cars these were or how many cars USAC started back then. Also not sure how wide the tires were or what the tire rules were.

[Danny Burton]

Sam, did you notice that there was one driver who was in all 3 of those races you shared here, plus he raced both Saturday night and Sunday afternoon at Winchester.

Hint: He won on Saturday night.