[okienonwingfan]

Ok I was just posting this to get what everyones feel about this is.

At the track in Okc we have five classes of cars and one class takes off each week. When that class comes back to race from the off week they are to draw for the starting position for the night. There are people that post on another forum that I goto say that this does not make it as exciting for the fans. Their reasoning is that usually the faster guys will start in the back based on the points system and they have to work thier way up to the front. After that first night back from being off they line up based on the points system once again.

[bobO]

point,s or draw it,s alway,s a better show when fast guy,s come from the back (imho) the only thing i hate about the draw is if i,m going to pull a 100 i want to pull it myself not stand there and watch someone draw my number and tell me-show (stuipd i know ) but that,s my feeling-- as fore your question you can make good-bad point,s either way

[Motormasher]

Qualify qualify qualify qualify and line up accordingly. This isn't Las Vegas or Bingo. Leave the drawings for the card players and Bingo parlors.

Why does everybody make this so difficult?

[racegal]

Hi Erich! I am trying to contact you but your Instant Message box is full! You must be very popular!
I forgot your e-mail address!
I don't have the capacity to start a thread for some reason so I used this one.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by okienonwingfan Ok I was just posting this to get what everyones feel about this is. At the track in Okc we have five classes of cars and one class takes off each week. When that class comes back to race from the off week they are to draw for the starting position for the night. There are people that post on another forum that I goto say that this does not make it as exciting for the fans. Their reasoning is that usually the faster guys will start in the back based on the points system and they have to work thier way up to the front. After that first night back from being off they line up based on the points system once again.

If you're not going to qualify, the draw is the most fair way to line up the heats. I like the ASCS points system where you get finishing and passing points in your heat/qualifier to determine feature line-up. I especially like the fact that, starting this year, if you lose positions in your heat/qualifier, points are deducted just like they're added when you improve position. The feature is then lined up according to points - most points on the pole, etc.

SCORA appears to be using a modified version of the old ASCS system, where you get finishing and passing points for your heat, with no deduction for losing positions. What I like is that they then run a qualifier, with the same cars as were in your heat, and they totally invert the finishing order of the heat for the qualifier (heat winner starts on back of qualifier, second starts next to last, etc.) This way you get more opportunity to accumulate points through both finishing and passing. Where I'm having a problem, though, is that there is then some sort of draw for an invert to line up the feature, so the highest point getter might not (or won't) start on the pole. So, essentially, you race your guts out in the heat and qualifier, only to still be subject to te luck of the draw for your feature starting position. Apparently, however, the season point totals will include all points accumulated, even heats and qualifiers, so you get somewhat rewarded for racing your hardest in heats and qualifiers. What I will be proposing to the SCORA officials the next time I see them is that passing points also be awarded in the features. The winner of the feature will still be the winner of the race, but he/she may not get the most points for the feature, especially if a guy comes from the back to run second. I believe that, this way, the fans are treated to the suspense of watching fast guys come from the middle of the field, and the drivers are rewarded, albeit at year's end, with additinal points for being subject to the luck of the draw twice on the same night.

SCORA officials, if I have this wrong, please straighten me out. If not, let me know what you think about my proposal.

Tim Simmons

[illiNOISE]

Originally Posted by Motormasher Qualify qualify qualify qualify and line up accordingly. This isn't Las Vegas or Bingo. Leave the drawings for the card players and Bingo parlors.

It also isn't NASCAR or the Indy Racing League. You probably need some sort of reasonable, limited invert for the fans.

I'll be honest: as a fan , I won't hesitate to say that I HATE time trials. But I know we've all seen countless instances where a driver who is 2-3 seconds off the pace draws up near the front of their heat, and if they don't elect to go to the tail, they sometimes proceed to hold up an entire line of the cars on the initial start. Now unless the yellow comes out, every driver behind the off the pace car is doomed to finish outside the top 3 or 4.

And passing points really aren't the panacea they're cracked up to be, but that's another topic for another time.

Bottom line: Man will find intelligent life on distant planets before he'll find the "perfect" race format. It just doesn't exist.

[Motormasher]

But still, if you qualify, don't make it thru your heat you still have to run a B main. I don't see the need for a 2nd qualifiers race, now we are talking about taking up more time (which is what most people complain about qualifying) and possiblly crashing and having to hurry up and fix it to start on the tail of the feature if they will let you.

USAC's format of qualifying and inverting in heats is the most exciting and fairest for everyone!

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Motormasher But still, if you qualify, don't make it thru your heat you still have to run a B main. I don't see the need for a 2nd qualifiers race, now we are talking about taking up more time (which is what most people complain about qualifying) and possiblly crashing and having to hurry up and fix it to start on the tail of the feature if they will let you. USAC's format of qualifying and inverting in heats is the most exciting and fairest for everyone!

I agree - Running the qualifier race takes up more time. But, I believe that, when given the choice, the fans would rather see several cars on the track at the same time racing against each other than one at a time racing against the clock. Also, at least at this time, SCORA doesn't have the car count to warrant B features.

Tim Simmons

[illiNOISE]

If a track or series is going to use passing points, why not eliminate the fractions? Instead of trying to keep track of the goofy 55, 52, 49, etc./1.5 pts. for each car passed, why not go to whole numbers, while keeping the weights the same? Make it a two point drop for each position drop from 1st, and give drivers one point for each car passed? The weights are exactly the same as they are now, but now you've eliminated the complication of the fractions.

Here's a system I would propose: 1.) 20
2.) 18
3.) 16
4.) 14
5.) 12
6.) 10
7.) 8
8.) 6
9.) 4
10.) 2

Each car passed=1 point.

Let's just look at how much simpler this system works. Under the customary 55, 52, etc. system used right now, a driver who starts 4th and finishes 3rd gets 49 pts. for their finish, and 1.5 pts. to total 50.5 pts. Under the system I've proposed, that same driver gets 16 pts. for their finish, plus one point for one pass. So they would finish with 17 pts, a whole number. And if your math is right, the drivers' standings will come out exactly the same everytime, no matter which system you elect to use. Only the actual numbers will change.

[sprntr]

If it were up to me, which I'm pretty sure it never will be, I line them up as follows.

First race by draw. Following races by points average with COMPLETE INVERT. Anyone without a point average (anyone running their first race after the start of the season) starts in the back.