Turkey night on the radio USAC official called a jump on the last restart with the #9 car. Another official agreed but they did not penalized the car/driver. Shouldnt the car/driver be penalized after the race? I dont see it in the final results.

[Racerrob]

Did he gain an advantage (position) by the jump? It is almost always stated in the drivers meeting that if you gain an advantage for jumping, it is a two for one penalty (two spots for every one you gain on that lap).

Just my guess.

Rob Hoffman

[6157]

Originally Posted by Racerrob Did he gain an advantage (position) by the jump? It is almost always stated in the drivers meeting that if you gain an advantage for jumping, it is a two for one penalty (two spots for every one you gain on that lap).

I saw the restart in question and I believe this is where the issue is. Hagen got along side the guy going into 1 but got dusted off two, so the slight advantage Hagen gained by doing it was gone after a quarter of a lap, so I can only assume thats why the penalty went unimposed.

[coondog]

I was watching the video and caught the jump. I believe he did pass the car in turn 3. In that case, he should of been put back. The rule is, if you gain an advantage anywhere in the next lap, you get put back. But with Western States officials running this race, who knows what their rule is. This has been a serious issue for a long time. Procedures are too inconsistant between National and Western States series. And I think officials watch turn 1 and 2 and if there isnt a pass, they dont worry about it. I know they can only watch so much. But if you have rules, enforce them. I have had issues with Western States not being consistant. When I asked about a rule they had and after it was not enforced, I was told, "We dont enforce that rule anyway."

[6157]

Originally Posted by coondog I was watching the video and caught the jump. I believe he did pass the car in turn 3. In that case, he should of been put back. The rule is, if you gain an advantage anywhere in the next lap, you get put back. But with Western States officials running this race, who knows what their rule is. This has been a serious issue for a long time. Procedures are too inconsistant between National and Western States series. And I think officials watch turn 1 and 2 and if there isnt a pass, they dont worry about it. I know they can only watch so much. But if you have rules, enforce them. I have had issues with Western States not being consistant. When I asked about a rule they had and after it was not enforced, I was told, "We dont enforce that rule anyway."

Glad someone said it. I wasn't going to beat that dead horse.

Jerry raises a number of good points. I don't see in the book where it defines what an advantage is and what happens when it's gained. It only indicates repositioning, if an advantage is gained. On a track like Irwindale, I would tend to say if the pass isn't completed immediately, the advantage will be negated by the backstraight. I know Jerry doesn't want to hear about more inconsistencies but it's best to look at this issue on a track by track basis.

He's also right in the respect that it's not logical for the officials to focus on one car for an entire lap. They may miss a larger issue and enforcing a misdemeanor instead of a felony, so to speak.

[Tim Clauson]

We are probably talking semantics here but when the car doing the jumping puts the car being jumped at a disadvantage then at that point an advantage has been gained.

Reality is this, of all of the judgement calls that seem to be creeping into the big leagues of racing this one could or should I say could be the easiest to enforce, nose to tail until you cross the start finish line.

Tim Clauson

[streihawk8]

Back in the old days when chased the USAC midget division around the call was if you even pulled out of line that was considered a jump. At Lawerenceburg one night everyone went to the bottom in 3 and 4 for the restart and I stayed on top. I didn't improve my position I just stayed even with my spot in line but they didn't throw the green and warned me to get back in line. Real easy to see a jump under that description.

Mike Streicher

Howdy coon dog and Racer Rob

[LEADERS EDGE]

Forget jumping the start, let's discuss the photo under Tim's name.

Originally Posted by streihawk8 Back in the old days when chased the USAC midget division around the call was if you even pulled out of line that was considered a jump. Mike Streicher

Simple enough, isn't it? Pull out of line and pass before the "cone"...you go back 2 spots for every 1 gained. Old school rules.

After jumping out of line on restarts/starts a few times and being sent to the tail, I learned to not do that anymore. :Steer

HI CORNDOG!!

[Pat O'Connor Fan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Happy HI CORNDOG!!

Well, this makes it official -- the "secret" is out!

Mr. Happy is Larry O
or
Larry O is Mr. Happy

:doh: