[Kart#51]

Originally Posted by Sandy Lowe Do you think the reason why Knoxville can pay more than local Indiana tracks is the fact that there are a lot fewer sprint races in the area for fans/sponsors/competitors to choose from? Counting wing 410 & 360 races Knoxville has 24 race nights. There are another 15 races across the state giving Iowa a total of 39 sprint races. NONE of those are scheduled against another sprint race in the state. Checking the Indiana schedules there are 138 non wing race nights scheduled. There are multiple nights where two (and sometimes three) tracks compete against each other. And this doesn’t include steel block sprints, World of Outlaws, silver crown races, or pavement racing.

Your question is really around supply/demand with the premise that Knoxville is a monopoly, correct? I would say that I don't think the geographical monopolization of Knoxville matters that much. I think its really about the prestige of racing and winning there. Knoxville is the most famous dirt track in the world(a debate can be made for Eldora) and that is what really matters to drivers and owners in that region. They travel from MO, SD, MN to race each week there and at one point Dobmeier was coming down from ND on a weekly basis, 13 hour one way tow. Indiana teams will jump up and tow to Knoxville for a weekly show if the weather or schedule permits. Yes, they want track time, but it at least pays them to show up and race. Plus, they want their names in the archives with the most famous owners and drivers to ever win there.

In regards to pay Knoxville has always been one of the leading tracks nationwide in terms of payouts. Long ago, Knoxville and the Grove had a healthy competition on who paid more on a weekly basis to win. The missing piece was WG paid more, but Knoxville's purse was much higher in the back end as well as the total point fund.


If you were to choose an apples to apple comparison you would need to look at Central PA vs. Indiana This would give you a decent compare point. I"m going to say that at a glance PA still would be in favor of higher payouts with around the same amount of races and they have a lot more higher paying races throughout the year too..

I"m going to catch grief for this and I'm only saying this because its true. The concern with Indiana is that is completely over saturated with the same product on a weekly basis. Indiana is basically cannibalizing its fan base. What makes one fan choose between track A, B or C on any given weekend? Is it location, cost, or potential field of cars, payout....etc???? Its all about the same on a weekly basis unless someone is running an increased purse to pull someone in the gate.

The local tracks most likely don't have an internet feed or source of revenue yet so that doesn't increase their ability to pay a higher purse. Indiana dirt tracks are falling behind in the grand scheme of what's happening. They need to study some of these other facilities and ask questions on how to do it better. This is where Central PA would have the upper hand in the debate on purse payout.

[deadhorse30]

Honestly, I think the Fremont/Attica comparison is much better than the Knoxville one. Fremont and Attica seem to have more in common with the Indiana tracks. In my opinion they seem to have around the same size of fan base and bleachers. Knoxville is huge and holds the biggest sprint race on the planet, nothing in Indiana compares.

So I think it's a fair question why 2 tracks in small town Ohio can pay double what any Indiana track pays weekly. With the die hard fan base in Indiana I seems like a valid question.

[chrismattlin]

There's some really great points made in this thread:
Sandy makes the salient point that the competition is fierce in Indiana; MotorHead makes the great counterpoint about the Pennsylvania scene; and Kart#51 susses the alternative revenue streams. Again, all really great points made.

And each of these points collate what I surmise: Indiana sprint car payouts could be better than they are presently, but I doubt that any of the tracks have the potential to reach the level of Knoxville Raceway's prizes. As Kart#51 was alluding to, it would be nice to see more corporate involvement in the local shows and, in addition, it has yet to be seen which Indiana track will be the first to plunge into the world of online streaming. (It's destiny, by now.)

As an avid race-goer, I have this to say to my beloved promoters: shows designed to "pay the bills" through the back gate always tend to keep this front gate consumer away. I understand why it's done, and I'm not mad about it, but all I want is the understanding that there are people like me out there who are a potential revenue stream, as well.

Even though we may never be king of the mountain, we can always strive to be better.

[spankytoo]

Originally Posted by deadhorse30 Honestly, I think the Fremont/Attica comparison is much better than the Knoxville one. Fremont and Attica seem to have more in common with the Indiana tracks. In my opinion they seem to have around the same size of fan base and bleachers. Knoxville is huge and holds the biggest sprint race on the planet, nothing in Indiana compares. So I think it's a fair question why 2 tracks in small town Ohio can pay double what any Indiana track pays weekly. With the die hard fan base in Indiana I seems like a valid question.

Maybe because the National Wing guys don't just show up when they aren't busy? Therefore the price has to go up to bring in talent?

I have always wondered what impact the National USAC guys bring when they show up to local races. Showing that they are willing to race for $1,500 to win and $200 to start. I bet the top 10-15 national guys have to win a local race to break even when they start tallying the crew, tires, and fuel they are paying for.

Also, Wing guys are busier. Once spring hits, there aren't a lot of weekends off for the WoO and Allstars. USAC, while it has a similar amount of races, does theirs in spurts with weeks off in between.

[Rhody]

The National guys aren't even breaking even when they win. I figure it costs me 1000 a night to race, and I don't pay my crew or tow the car with a semi.

[cornerthree]

They lose money on every weekly show. Only make money on their 3 specials.