[cmakin]

Originally Posted by openwheelfan1 My thoughts: Since I’ve been around sprint car racing or over 60 years, I’m both old school AND old. Single car qualifying is what I’m used to. BUT, when I’ve taken our son’s friends with us to races (when he was a teen) or even when we’ve taken our friends who’ve never been to a sprint car race, they find single car qualifying boring. They usually prefer Hot Lap/Group Qualifying as at least they can compare relative speeds of the cars in the group. I’m not saying USAC should go to group qualifying, but I don’t think there is anything wrong with qualifying two cars at a time.

While haven't been around the sport quite that long, I have been for many decades. I remember back when programs were sold, and I would enter the times in the appropriate page. That always kept me interested as a youngster.

[yeleyfan76]

Originally Posted by JakeCroxton I'll put the over/under at time saved for two-car qualifying at 8-minutes...for folks that are efficient with single-car qualifying, multiple car qualifying just usually makes people feel better...and isn't the drastic time-saver that everyone thinks it is...

Bingo! You nailed it. It makes me feel better to end the boredom. Since people are talking about how it’s been from back in the day, I’d like to share how I grew up. Here in the east we did something real simple. The guy leading the points started the feature (A main) in 16th or 18th depending on the track. We had absolutely no time trials. The fast guys started in the back all nite every nite. We could care less if driver A entered turn one an inch and a half higher than did driver B. If that mattered we found out because A would then pass B. This crap about guessing the time on a scoreboard or hoping to remember later in the night that the 23rd car on track was a tick quicker than the 1st and 39th guy did.
The reality is that in the Usac sprint car series( which is the only series I care about), the top guys in points usually start the A in the front 4 rows, barring an issue in the heats. That means you have to spend a ton of money to run two laps against no one to assure you have basically passed over half of the field before the real race starts. I will never win this “debate” but I’ll bet that if Bacon,Grant, Leary, Axsom, Ballou, and Swanson, started further in the back every nite, they would be a bunch more fun to watch pushing hard to make it thru. Tip toeing thru lapped cars is passing yes, but pushing thru the field is what I thought racing was all about. Now that the cars are locked down due to tires, track prep and other issues passing is at a premium. I’m not sure how many people were at Smackdown this year, but the clinic Kyle Cummins put on coming from the back was an instant classic. Imagine if all of the “fast” cars could do that every nite. I’d think more folks would be in the stands each week. Speaking of which, it’s amazing how much more the stands fill up when the heats are ready to start and not during TT. I guess they are enjoying the excitement in the parking lot?

[BrentTFunk]

Originally Posted by yeleyfan76 Bingo! You nailed it. It makes me feel better to end the boredom. Since people are talking about how it’s been from back in the day, I’d like to share how I grew up. Here in the east we did something real simple. The guy leading the points started the feature (A main) in 16th or 18th depending on the track. We had absolutely no time trials. The fast guys started in the back all nite every nite. We could care less if driver A entered turn one an inch and a half higher than did driver B. If that mattered we found out because A would then pass B. This crap about guessing the time on a scoreboard or hoping to remember later in the night that the 23rd car on track was a tick quicker than the 1st and 39th guy did. The reality is that in the Usac sprint car series( which is the only series I care about), the top guys in points usually start the A in the front 4 rows, barring an issue in the heats. That means you have to spend a ton of money to run two laps against no one to assure you have basically passed over half of the field before the real race starts. I will never win this “debate” but I’ll bet that if Bacon,Grant, Leary, Axsom, Ballou, and Swanson, started further in the back every nite, they would be a bunch more fun to watch pushing hard to make it thru. Tip toeing thru lapped cars is passing yes, but pushing thru the field is what I thought racing was all about. Now that the cars are locked down due to tires, track prep and other issues passing is at a premium. I’m not sure how many people were at Smackdown this year, but the clinic Kyle Cummins put on coming from the back was an instant classic. Imagine if all of the “fast” cars could do that every nite. I’d think more folks would be in the stands each week. Speaking of which, it’s amazing how much more the stands fill up when the heats are ready to start and not during TT. I guess they are enjoying the excitement in the parking lot?

I think it is funny that the example that you used was a race that had single car qualifying. Cummins was impressive that night. I also remember Terry Pletch coming through the non qualifiers race, and winning the Hulman Classic. The USAC format makes the fast qualifier pass more cars than any series that I know of. It also rewards guys who don't qualify well but win their heat.

If you can name me a series that requires more passing out of the fast qualifier than USAC I would like to know.

[cornerthree]

Originally Posted by yeleyfan76 Bingo! You nailed it. It makes me feel better to end the boredom. Since people are talking about how it’s been from back in the day, I’d like to share how I grew up. Here in the east we did something real simple. The guy leading the points started the feature (A main) in 16th or 18th depending on the track. We had absolutely no time trials. The fast guys started in the back all nite every nite. We could care less if driver A entered turn one an inch and a half higher than did driver B. If that mattered we found out because A would then pass B. This crap about guessing the time on a scoreboard or hoping to remember later in the night that the 23rd car on track was a tick quicker than the 1st and 39th guy did. The reality is that in the Usac sprint car series( which is the only series I care about), the top guys in points usually start the A in the front 4 rows, barring an issue in the heats. That means you have to spend a ton of money to run two laps against no one to assure you have basically passed over half of the field before the real race starts. I will never win this “debate” but I’ll bet that if Bacon,Grant, Leary, Axsom, Ballou, and Swanson, started further in the back every nite, they would be a bunch more fun to watch pushing hard to make it thru. Tip toeing thru lapped cars is passing yes, but pushing thru the field is what I thought racing was all about. Now that the cars are locked down due to tires, track prep and other issues passing is at a premium. I’m not sure how many people were at Smackdown this year, but the clinic Kyle Cummins put on coming from the back was an instant classic. Imagine if all of the “fast” cars could do that every nite. I’d think more folks would be in the stands each week. Speaking of which, it’s amazing how much more the stands fill up when the heats are ready to start and not during TT. I guess they are enjoying the excitement in the parking lot?

Usac has the best format right now. But would love to see old school invert the heats completly. And maybe do 10 in the features. I won't spend money to watch a race that has straight up starts.

[Pitdad]

Originally Posted by yeleyfan76 Bingo! You nailed it. It makes me feel better to end the boredom. Since people are talking about how it’s been from back in the day, I’d like to share how I grew up. Here in the east we did something real simple. The guy leading the points started the feature (A main) in 16th or 18th depending on the track. We had absolutely no time trials. The fast guys started in the back all nite every nite.

1500 miles to your west, we did it similarly for a regular points night. We did it from points average, rather than total points, but you got the same effect, fast cars started at the back and had to work their way through the field. If you were a new car, you went to the back until you established a points average. We didn't need a "qualifier" so you could sandbag and save back in heat. You lined up for your heat based on your average and the top 5 finisher from the heats went into the A, next 5 went to the B and if there was anyone left after that, they went to a C. High points average man started 20th in the A. The low points average guy that made it through a heat started on the pole of the A feature. If a hot shoe from out of town rolled in with no points, he lined up in the back in the heat. If he finished top 5, he went to the back of the A.

When we had more than 60 cars showed up, the top 50 in points got to run a heat and everyone below that had to run the consolation race (to try to get on to the back of the C feature). You DIDN'T want to fall into that consolation race or you might never get out alive...

But this worked for regular track points nights/shows. When the traveling series came to town, it was still set up by time trials with an invert. Time trials meant something "special" was happening, like the State Fair race or a traveling series. Even today, I'm okay with time trials for traveling series. What I DON'T like is time trials for a "regular show" where there are points for a track title. And I don't like all this "getting your time back" from the B. If you fall into the B because you couldn't (or wouldn't) advance through your heat, you start behind the A feature cars. That'll motivate you to get a move on through the heats.

If I wanted to focus on one car on the track racing against a stop watch every week, I'd go watch autocross.

[flagboy55]

When I went to Husets, I watched hotlaps and qualifying because I didn’t run into anyone I knew having some frosty’s in the parking lot. Hell,76. If not for you and NoDrama I might have watched qualifying this year 🤔🍻

[yeleyfan76]

Originally Posted by BrentTFunk I think it is funny that the example that you used was a race that had single car qualifying. Cummins was impressive that night. I also remember Terry Pletch coming through the non qualifiers race, and winning the Hulman Classic. The USAC format makes the fast qualifier pass more cars than any series that I know of. It also rewards guys who don't qualify well but win their heat. If you can name me a series that requires more passing out of the fast qualifier than USAC I would like to know.

Come on Brent try and focus. Did you really think I could use an example on this board that wasn’t a Usac race to prove a point about passing from the rear every week?? Seriously you would never be able to relate to what I’m talking about. I don’t care what the series is, TT handicaps the fast guys to the front. Usac may have the best of the worst formats.
This very topic came up this summer in a conversation with two members of this forum and a well respected member of sprint car media. During that talk I realized that the three of them are from Indiana and they don’t know any different but watching TT. You missed the point about Cummins and about the Pletch race at THAT. Btw Hewitt started in the back and finished right behind him. The point is that if the guys who can go fast for two laps on their own then they should be able to be fast when 21 others are out on the track with them.
I grew up watching the greats coming from the back every race. They didn’t get a half of field or more advantage because they raced a stopwatch.

[ThrowbackRacingTeam]

I find anything other than single car qualifying a boring extension of hot laps. Might as well just time during hot laps or draw for position. I also prefer non-wing sprints on 1/2 miles so I guess that makes me some kind of weird old dinosaur. Even crazier yet, I like mile dirt tracks and attend them unlike most people on here.

[Dale]

Originally Posted by ThrowbackRacingTeam I find anything other than single car qualifying a boring extension of hot laps. Might as well just time during hot laps or draw for position. I also prefer non-wing sprints on 1/2 miles so I guess that makes me some kind of weird old dinosaur. Even crazier yet, I like mile dirt tracks and attend them unlike most people on here.

I'm with you. Had my fill of bull rings but I won't miss a race at Terre Haute.

[JakeCroxton]

I know a lot of you will vomit...but the best season of racing that I've ever been a part of was a Hobby Stock class on DOT tires. IMCA inverted point average (same system the RaceSaver cars use today). Entire field inverted for four heats (we had 40 cars every night). Race from 10th to the top four so we could invert the top 12 again (so, high point man starts 10th in the heat and 12th in the feature at best). Otherwise, you can go to the semi and start worse than that. One guy one three races...the other races all had different winners in 15 starts...

Those races you paid attention every time they were on the track. Who had trouble in practice. Who didn't get qualified and had to work harder. Who was sandbagging the average so they could start up front next week.

Best of the worst - ok...but the current USAC format is the only one that makes the fastest guy pass anybody at all...