[Midget98]

Originally Posted by Ray3 All I see there is excuses. The purse is abysmal for the Chili Bowl. He says several times that Bell and Larson don't call him. Only reason Hahn wants them to call is so he can make a side deal with those guys and continue paying everyone else peanuts. Breakdown: Entry Fees: $150X394 cars = $59,100 Pit Passes: 394X6 people per car = 2364X$375 (multi day pit pass) = $886,500 this is probably extremely low. Just in those two revenue sources we are at $945,600.00. By his own admission it costs $1 million. We are almost there and we haven't sold a single ticket yet. Let say he sells 10,000 tickets for the week. 10,000X$365 (week long ticket) = $4,380,000 So just rough numbers before any sponsorship, no TV rights and no fuel sales.... Total reveunue = $5,325,600.00-$1,000,000(costs) = $4,325,600.00 in NET PROFIT!

You are absolutely spot on with this. Even if the costs are $3,000,000, there's way more than a million in profit left. also, the website says that the Chili Bowl has seating for 15,000 so you are being conservative with your figures. It's a private business venture, so we'll never know the actual profit made each year, but your numbers don't even take into account the whole week of the Shootout. About 20 years ago, I was in Tulsa and was sitting around chatting with a bunch of guys including Lanny Edwards. It was brought up that the week before the Chili Bowl pretty much paid the expenses for the whole deal. Lanny just smiled and didn't say much about it. I'd bet the entry fees and pit passes for the Shootout are even more than the Chili Bowl based on the even larger number of cars and competitors. And do they even pay a purse for the Shootout or is it just trophies?

I don't begrudge anyone from making a profit (even a large one) from an event that he started and grew over the years, but it makes Emmet Hahn look pretty stupid when he makes statements and tries to claim that he's barely scraping by. Anyone with a calculator can tell you, that just isn't true.

[Charles Nungester]

Im with Emmett Don't want to run it, Don't. It's still "THE SHOW" the career maker and will be great racing 350 cars or 250. You'll get that nowhere else in the nation, Not even close.

They still could have called him rather than go to press. Sure there may have been something worked out.

Did he even make a profit in 2021 with half attendance?

[dsc1600]

I don't think Hahn is necessarily getting rich on this thing, but I think he uses the profits he makes from it to fund ASCS tours etc...

This is part of the reason Indiana Sprint Week, which gets huge crowds runs for mediocre purses, the tracks are likely using the profits made from that night to fund the not so profitable nights throughout the year.

[Dale]

If ever there was a need for collective bargaining. Either the drivers or owners, with a legitimate threat to kill the event, could force Emmitt and the facility to open up the books and negotiate a fair sharing of the revenue. And what do they charge for hot dogs? Unbelievable there is no concession money in the purse.

[Ray3]

Originally Posted by Midget98 You are absolutely spot on with this. Even if the costs are $3,000,000, there's way more than a million in profit left. also, the website says that the Chili Bowl has seating for 15,000 so you are being conservative with your figures. It's a private business venture, so we'll never know the actual profit made each year, but your numbers don't even take into account the whole week of the Shootout. About 20 years ago, I was in Tulsa and was sitting around chatting with a bunch of guys including Lanny Edwards. It was brought up that the week before the Chili Bowl pretty much paid the expenses for the whole deal. Lanny just smiled and didn't say much about it. I'd bet the entry fees and pit passes for the Shootout are even more than the Chili Bowl based on the even larger number of cars and competitors. And do they even pay a purse for the Shootout or is it just trophies? I don't begrudge anyone from making a profit (even a large one) from an event that he started and grew over the years, but it makes Emmet Hahn look pretty stupid when he makes statements and tries to claim that he's barely scraping by. Anyone with a calculator can tell you, that just isn't true.

I agree about the guy making a profit. I want him to make money, a lot of money. Thats what business is about, risk and reward. However, to pay $10K to win when you are bringing in $4-5million and asking people to live in Tulsa for an entire week is just wrong.

Here is the entire Knoxville Nationals pay out. This is probably what the Chili Bowl should be paying.

KNOXVILLE NATIONALS PURSE BREAKDOWN
WEDNESDAY AND THURSDAY:
Heats:
1. $150 2. $125 3. $100 4. $90 5. $80 6. $70 7. $60 8. $50 9. $50 10. $50

C Main:
1. $150 2. $150 3. $150 4. $150 5. $250
6. $200 7. $175 8. $150 9. $140 10. $100
11. $100 12. $100 13. $100 14. $100 15. $100
16. $100 17. $100 18. $100 19. $100 20. $100

B Main:
1. $200 2. $200 3. $200 4. $200 5. $600
6. $550 7. $500 8. $475 9. $450 10. $425
11. $400 12. $375 13. $350 14. $325 15. $300
16. $275 17. $260 18. $250 19. $240 20. $225
21. $200 22. $200 23. $200 24. $200

A Main:
1. $12,000 2. $10,000 3. $7,000 4. $6,000
5. $5,000 6. $4,000 7. $3,500 8. $2,500
9. $2,000 10. $1,750 11. $1,500 12. $1,400
13. $1,300 14. $1,250 15. $1,200 16. $1,150
17. $1,100 18. $1,050 19. $1,000 20. $1,000
21. $1,000 22. $1,000 23. $1,000 24. $1,000

HARD KNOX FRIDAY:
C Main:
1. $200 2. $200 3. $200 4. $200 5. $200
6. $200 7. $200 8. $200 9. $600 10. $550
11. $500 12. $475 13. $450 14. $425 15. $400
16. $375 17. $350 18. $325 19. $300 20. $200
21. $200 22. $200 23. $200 24. $200

B Mains 1 and 2:
1. $400 2. $400 3. $400 4. $1,200 5. $1,100
6. $1,000 7. $950 8. $900 9. $850 10. $825
11. $800 12. $775 13. $750 14. $725 15. $700
16. $675 17. $650 18. $625 19. $600 20. $575
21. $550 22. $500 23. $500 24. $500

A Main:
1. $4,000 2. $4,000 3. $4,000 4. $4,000 5. $5,000
6. $4,000 7. $3,000 8. $3,000 9. $3,000 10. $3,000
11. $3,000 12. $2,500 13. $2,400 14. $2,300 15. $2,200 16. $2,100 17. $2,000 18. $1,900 19. $1,800 20. $1,700 21. $1,600 22. $1,500 23. $1,400 24. $1,300

CHAMPIONSHIP SATURDAY:
Best Appearing Crew:
1. $500 2. $250 3. $150

Best Appearing Car:
1. $1.500 2. $750 3. $400

Mr. Sprint Award:
1. $6,000 2. $2,500 3. $1,000

Pole Award Award:
$2,000

Rookie of the Year Award:
$1,000

E Main:
1. $600 2. $600 3. $600 4. $600 5. $600
6. $600 7. $800 8. $775 9. $750 10. $725
11. $700 12. $675 13. $650 14. $625 15. $600
16. $575 17. $550 18. $525 19. $500 20. $475
21. $450 22. $425 23. $400 24. $400

D Main:
1. $800 2. $800 3. $800 4. $800 5. $1,200
6. $1,100 7. $1,000 8. $950 9. $900 10. $850
11. $825 12. $800 13. $800 14. $800 15. $800
16. $800 17. $800 18. $800 19. $800 20. $800
21. $800 22. $800 23. $800 24. $800

C Main:
1. $1,000 2. $1,000 3. $1,000 4. $1,000 5. $2,000
6. $1,750 7. $1,500 8. $1,400 9. $1,300 10. $1,250 11. $1,225 12. $1,200 13. $1,175 14. $1,150 15. $1,125 16. $1,100 17. $1,050 18. $1,000 19. $950 20. $900
21. $850 22. $825 23. $825 24. $825

B Main:
1. $1,000 2. $1,000 3. $1,000 4. $1,000 5. $8,000
6. $7,000 7. $6,000 8. $5,000 9. $4,000 10. $3,500 11. $3,000 12. $2,500 13. $2,250 14. $2,000 15. $1,750 16. $1,500 17. $1,450 18. $1,400 19. $1,350 20. $1,300
21. $1,250 22. $1,200 23. $1,150 24. $1,100

Championship A Main:
1. $150,000 2. $75,000 3. $37,500 4. $26,000
5. $21,000 6. $20,000 7. $19,000 8. $18,000
9. $17,000 10. $16,000 11. $15,000 12. $14,000
13. $13,000 14. $12,000 15. $11,000 16. $10,500
17. $10,000 18. $10,000 19. $10,000 20. $10,000
21. $10,000 22. $10,000 23. $10,000 24. $10,000

TOTAL PURSE: $970,105

[Midget98]

Originally Posted by Dale If ever there was a need for collective bargaining. Either the drivers or owners, with a legitimate threat to kill the event, could force Emmitt and the facility to open up the books and negotiate a fair sharing of the revenue. And what do they charge for hot dogs? Unbelievable there is no concession money in the purse.

The last thing this world needs is collective bargaining for a race purse. This is still a free country and no one is forcing anyone to participate or attend the race. He could offer zero purse with a trophy to win and I would bet that he still gets over 200 cars to show up. While I don't agree with his weak argument/claim that the money just isn't there to increase the purse, there is little motivation to just give away more money when the attendance and participation levels are at record levels. Now, with a couple big names saying they may stay away or go elsewhere that week, we will see if others do the same. There's way more than just a couple big name drivers that show up for the Chili Bowl and I don't think missing a few of them will hurt attendance in any way.

[miledirt]

Branding is dependent upon product. You remove 4,5 of the best drivers in the world from your product, your brand has significantly changed.

[Ray3]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester Im with Emmett Don't want to run it, Don't. It's still "THE SHOW" the career maker and will be great racing 350 cars or 250. You'll get that nowhere else in the nation, Not even close. They still could have called him rather than go to press. Sure there may have been something worked out. Did he even make a profit in 2021 with half attendance?

Are you in his back pocket or what? I'm trying to figure out why someone would be so far one sided without being paid for it.

[flagboy55]

I would disagree with the career maker moniker. In fact I would say the names have made the race. Just to use Bell and Larson for example. They were already on the national scene ascending to the big leagues before they won a Chili Bowl. Their passion for the event and large and expanding presence in USAC and NASCAR brought more attention to the event. That’s just a current example

[Charles Nungester]

Originally Posted by Ray3 Are you in his back pocket or what? I'm trying to figure out why someone would be so far one sided without being paid for it.

Im just sick of the everyone being jealous of someone else's success and demanding a piece of it. I mean come on, I wanted to win this since I was a little kid in the stands, To it's not that big of race?

It was brought out here that it probably helps ACSC as Knoxville basically supports keeping the track racing all summer while the rest of it's races Lose money . As does Sprint week and other specials keep Indiana tracks open.

Midgets lasted two years in the Gateway nationals. Could of been great and well paying. Not supported........ Believe what you want.