[Kart#51]

Originally Posted by TQ29m Wonder what the current percentage is that goes to the driver now days? Just curious.

Depends on the situation. If you are on a WoO team you most likely are on a standard weekly salary(some make 6 figures from that alone) plus a sliding scale on the finish of the car and any incentives for winning certain races or points titles.

[JarrettFarms73]

Out of curiosity, how much are a set of wings? What’s the cost to paint/ wrap the car with and without a wing? I could be wrong but with the average track size the wing cars run being bigger than what USAC runs, and with how hard they turn those motors, how often do wing motors need freshened in comparison? What’s the cost of the overall motor program, wing vs non wing? Does the consistent high rpm of a wing car put more wear on a rear end? or is the up and down throttling of a non wing just as hard on them? Does the downforce of a wing car stress frames, bars and shocks faster than a non wing car? How much racing fuel is required to complete all season events?

Dunno, but my gut tells me it’s not as simple as announced purses and starting money.

BTW, you don’t see Outlaw drivers pop into a local show because it requires a formal exemption to be allowed to do it. No such thing as just sitting around and suddenly a hankering to run XYZ Speedway hits if your signed on to WoO.

[Indy]

Newer, faster, better and less competitive is what you get. All you have to do is go to Eldora's let's race 2 night, a USAC, WoO double header and the quality of competition between the two is very noticeable. The quality of and depth of the the USAC sprints is deep. Feature field of non wings is competitive and lapping is later in the race.
The WoO feature is noticeable between the haves and the have nots and lapping happens early.
There's more to racing than speed and big budgets. There is no parity in WOO.

[oldfan49]

Here in Kansas City it's ASCS winged 360 country through and through but between POWRI's WAR and USAC's MWRA traditional sprints are growing pretty good. All we need are some tracks that are not dusty simulated pavement.

I have heard several drivers say they are going wingless because they can't afford to go winged racing competitively but they can afford to be competitive running topless.

It's like everyone always talking about the win money when in reality it's the start money that is causing most of the cars that get parked to get parked.

[Puppy]

Originally Posted by Indy Newer, faster, better and less competitive is what you get. All you have to do is go to Eldora's let's race 2 night, a USAC, WoO double header and the quality of competition between the two is very noticeable. The quality of and depth of the the USAC sprints is deep. Feature field of non wings is competitive and lapping is later in the race. The WoO feature is noticeable between the haves and the have nots and lapping happens early. There's more to racing than speed and big budgets. There is no parity in WOO.

That's YOUR opinion. I think the WoO crowds have a different opinion....

[WingedFan2019]

Originally Posted by Indy Newer faster better and less competitive. All you have to do is go to Eldora's let's race 2, a USAC WoO double header and the quality of competition between the two is very noticeable. The quality of and depth of the the USAC sprints is de feature field of non wings are is deep.and lapping is later in the race. WoO feature is noticeable between the haves and the have not sand lapping happens early. There's more to racing than speed and big budgets.

i went to that event and if i remember correctly, Tyler Courtney and Robert Ballou were half the track infront of 3rd place and lapped up to 8th place. Just take the 2 biggest wing/non-wing events and compare. in non wing you have 7, 8 drivers that have a real chance of winning. Bacon, Grant, Windom Leary, KTJ, T-Mez Ballou and Cummins. Whereas if the best Winged drivers all race with eachother There's 15 i can name that stand a chance of winning. Winged racing definitely has higher quality drivers thus adding to the reason why Winged Racing is better overall.

[Hamby454]

I prefer non wing racing. But the dollars follow winged racing. I think that huge billboard up top is a good start for advertising as well. The other thing is drivers. Non wing racing has few hot beds. Most who think they have the talent to compete at the top level, and can afford to do so move to indiana. Winged racing/series are sprinkled on everywhere. For the big event in non wing you’ll be lucky to see 40 cars. The guys who know they won’t make it or are even thinking they may not make the show simply won’t show up. The risk isn’t worth the reward. The non wing game has become somewhat of a clique and a who’s who deal more than racing. I’ve seen stuff fo down that people should be banned or at least suspended for and they get nothing and then seen people do something very minor and get thrown the book at. You’ll never grow a series by having favorites, you’ll also never attract sponsors that way. No one wants to spend their hard earned money on something that’s going to get minimal coverage because he’s not one of the big 5 or what have you with the series. They need better coverage of the races. I think Tony has the right energy but you can tell he’s new to these drivers and this type of racing and that rubs some fans the wrong way. In my personal opinion, as a kid, and still to this day, Johnny Gibson is the best part of a WoO show. And that I’m itself gets people excited to keep coming back. Having someone in the booth passionate and knowledgeable about the sport is worth is it’s weight in gold.

[openwheelfan1]

We typically attend about 10-12 WoO races/year, and about 12-15 non-wing (typically USAC, but some MSCS) races/year. We typically see the occasional poor race from both WoO and USAC/MSCS in any given year. I do believe that in the last 5 years, the quality of both the WoO and USAC fields have gotten deeper and the quality throughout has improved.

I had the privilege of speaking with Rico Abreu a few years ago, and he expressed that IN HIS OPINION, midget drivers performed well in winged sprint cars because in midgets it is critical to keep momentum up and the same is true for winged sprint cars. If true, that may explain why guys like Rico, Larson, Zeb Wise, Spencer Bayston, and some others have had a successful transition from midgets to winged sprint cars.

While there has certainly been an improvement in the amount of money that is available for a non-winged sprint for 2021, it still pales in comparison to what is available for the winged sprint cars. Yes, winged cars have higher expenses, particularly in engine rebuilds, but it certainly appears that there is more than 2 times the money to be earned in purses. The payout at Circle City vs. Lawrenceburg is a prime example. Yes, I understand that Circle City is trying to build participation and a fan base, but 10 for a weekly show at Lawrenceburg pays $280 vs. $555 at Circle City. A racer isn’t going to get rich at Circle City, but he at least pays for his pit fees, fuel and a RR tire.

Before everyone says I’m a winged fan, I’ll tell you that is not true. I am a SPRINT CAR fan. I enjoy winged cars at most venues, and non winged cars at most tracks too. I started this thread because I found the comments by Matt Wood and Tim Clausen to be both eye opening and a little disturbing. IF Tim Clausen’s statement about numerous owners and sponsors salivating to get involved is true, I don’t think the same can be said about non-winged sprint cars even in anyone’s wildest fantasies.

[JarrettFarms73]

Originally Posted by WingedFan2019 i went to that event and if i remember correctly, Tyler Courtney and Robert Ballou were half the track infront of 3rd place and lapped up to 8th place. Just take the 2 biggest wing/non-wing events and compare. in non wing you have 7, 8 drivers that have a real chance of winning. Bacon, Grant, Windom Leary, KTJ, T-Mez Ballou and Cummins. Whereas if the best Winged drivers all race with eachother There's 15 i can name that stand a chance of winning. Winged racing definitely has higher quality drivers thus adding to the reason why Winged Racing is better overall.

I mean this with all respect but you obviously don’t follow non wing. You left out Darland, Chase Stockon, Shane Cottle, Jake Swanson, AJ Hopkins, J-Mac, Brady Short, Carson Short, Matt Westfall, Scotty Weir, Brent Beauchamp, Shane Cockrum, Stevie Sussex and others i’m sure i’ve missed. Wouldn’t sleep on newcomer to 410’s, Emerson Axsom, either

Smackdown 10 rolls off next week and i’d be willing to bet there will be 25+ drivers entered who are either a former track/series champion or have won multiple features in the last two years.

Sprint cars are awesome and yes, wing racing has a ton of studs as well. Both disciplines have teams that come and go. Admitting my own bias for non wing racing, i just find the notion of wing racing being a bit of a golden goose preposterous. True, nobody in this thread called it a “golden goose” but it is being implied over and over again that there’s no reason financially to run non wing.

[JarrettFarms73]

Think this was done at the first Let’s Race Two event. Not 100 on that though.

https://youtu.be/Wh8Rd2T90mk