[mc/rider]

One solution and one solution only. Indy Cars on mile dirt

[Puppy]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester Problem with Indycar The don't wan't a racer They want a robot.

What's your basis for saying this?
Think Colton Herta isn't a RACER? Even Rinus, Pato or Palou. If you don't know about how good these guys are then you aren't paying attention, and if you aren't paying attention then maybe you shouldn't be commenting about things you don't know anything about... Jussayin...

[Charles Nungester]

Originally Posted by Puppy What's your basis for saying this? Think Colton Herta isn't a RACER? Even Rinus, Pato or Palou. If you don't know about how good these guys are then you aren't paying attention, and if you aren't paying attention then maybe you shouldn't be commenting about things you don't know anything about... Jussayin...

You know, All I was trying to say is that it would be more a spectacle if more people could connect to it. Larson drives in front of 5-10k crowds all around the country. Does the road to indy have any fans other than Indy Lights on carb day?

Yeah, Honestly, I don't know about Rinus or Pato or Palou, Where did they come from? That's what Im saying. Used to be you watched these guys for five ten years and followed their career in Indycar.. I quit paying attention to anything but the 500 and barely watch that anymore. Used to follow Andretti's Foyt, Jones, Unsers all across the circuit Because they raced in front of us before and even after they got famous.


Things are different, For the better? Not to me.

[dsc1600]

Agreed on all points. This is not a slight against the talent in the IndyCar series as I’m sure many have tremendous skills. But there is no “grassroots” there anymore and the feeder series have absolutely no fanbase whatsoever.

[Brickyard]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester You know, All I was trying to say is that it would be more a spectacle if more people could connect to it. Larson drives in front of 5-10k crowds all around the country. Does the road to indy have any fans other than Indy Lights on carb day? Yeah, Honestly, I don't know about Rinus or Pato or Palou, Where did they come from? That's what Im saying. Used to be you watched these guys for five ten years and followed their career in Indycar.. I quit paying attention to anything but the 500 and barely watch that anymore. Used to follow Andretti's Foyt, Jones, Unsers all across the circuit Because they raced in front of us before and even after they got famous. Things are different, For the better? Not to me.

I'm not saying to be a smart A, so don't take it that way, but I always see this on here. Where did they come from, who are they? If we had more local guys more people would watch. There is whole big world of auto racing outside the many dirt tracks across the U.S. and a lot of these guys start out just as small learning in karts then moving up into the junior formulas here and across the pond. Some run sports cars, one driver has won three Aussie Supercar championships in a row. You have former junior category champions to include Formula 2. Guys that won at Le Mans, Sebring, Daytona 24, been reserve drivers in F1 and have driven races in F1.

You may not know them, you might not have watched them for 5 or 10 years coming up through the ranks, but plenty of people that pay attention to things outside the whole wide world of Indiana dirt do.

[Will Shunk]

Originally Posted by dsc1600 Agreed on all points. This is not a slight against the talent in the IndyCar series as I’m sure many have tremendous skills. But there is no “grassroots” there anymore and the feeder series have absolutely no fanbase whatsoever.

Been saying this since 1990....that Indy/CART/IndyCar will die a slow death due to no "name recognition" to American fans through grassroots emotional attachment. A one off year to year by Larson or any other high profile short track driver will not save the sport. Simply put, an American racing series with drivers American fans have never watched, will not prosper. Covid was not the cause for the dismal turnout for 500 practice, Fast Friday, and qualifications. Most on here know what it used to look like, 100K +, infield tailgating, packed suites, etc. 2021 Great young talent, YES. 2021 fans who give a crap, other than the generational traditions of the 500 mile race, NO. If ANY IndyCar driver sat in the stands @ Bubba, Farmer City, Devil's Bowl, Port Royal, NO ONE would know who they are. Not familiar with the drivers results in no ticket, TV, streaming, or sponsor buyers. For many of us the 500 is a lifelong dedication. For many of our children the 500 is a once, twice and done. For our grandchildren it is a "don't see the big deal". Yes indeed, a slow death has occurred.

[dsc1600]

The death has already occurred. That happened a long time ago.

What’s happening now is a slow rebirth due to an increased interest in F1 and IndyCars because it’s a real sport devoid of all the WWE type gimmicks that have ruined Nascar. The lack of grassroots helped killed IndyCar in the first place, and while it won’t get back to what it was, it’s encouraging to see F1 and IndyCar tv ratings on the upswing.

[Brickyard]

Originally Posted by Will Shunk Been saying this since 1990....that Indy/CART/IndyCar will die a slow death due to no "name recognition" to American fans through grassroots emotional attachment. A one off year to year by Larson or any other high profile short track driver will not save the sport. Simply put, an American racing series with drivers American fans have never watched, will not prosper. Covid was not the cause for the dismal turnout for 500 practice, Fast Friday, and qualifications. Most on here know what it used to look like, 100K +, infield tailgating, packed suites, etc. 2021 Great young talent, YES. 2021 fans who give a crap, other than the generational traditions of the 500 mile race, NO. If ANY IndyCar driver sat in the stands @ Bubba, Farmer City, Devil's Bowl, Port Royal, NO ONE would know who they are. Not familiar with the drivers results in no ticket, TV, streaming, or sponsor buyers. For many of us the 500 is a lifelong dedication. For many of our children the 500 is a once, twice and done. For our grandchildren it is a "don't see the big deal". Yes indeed, a slow death has occurred.

Funny thing is this 500 full of drivers that some of you on here claim that no one knows because they didn't spend the early years of their racing education slinging dirt at Eldora, Terre Haute, Lawrencburg, etc. just outdrew the Daytona 500 for the first time since.....1995, which was a series and race very similar in track and driver makeup of the current one. It peaked at over 7 million watchers as a foreigner, who according to some here no one should have any interest in, became the first to win 4 in 30 years crossed the line and saw one of the most emotional unscripted post race ceremonies in the history of this race.

You want to know what happened to the numbers? It's simple as 1996 when TG played the all oval all American short tracker route and the other side who underestimated TG's will to see that through, rather than confronting it head on and ending it before it began, turned their keys on the nuclear ballistic missles as TG turned his. On top of that, and Donald Davidson has brought this up many times before, cultural shifts in our society over that time have also helped lead to the decreasing crowds during qual and practice. This is not the same society free time wise with all of the other things grabbing our attention that it was in 1995, 1985, and certaintly not 1955.

Something of note, I took drivers out of the top 10 in both Silver Crown and Sprints, 20 in all, 4 had no Twitter accounts that I could find, the only one who cracked 20K in followers was Brady Bacon, and the average number of followers for those accounts was 5,753. The average for the top 20 of no names at this years 500? An average of 154,550 followers. Like I have said, there are ways to get here, some of that falls on the drivers themselves. If this world was as big and out there as we think a driver like Kody Swanson would have more than 3,092 followers. Some of this is plain and simple marketing yourself, the other part is just as plain and simple as not trying to take the path to get there. Outside the world of dirt, which is far from being the only grass roots out there, I don't think the average race fan could name most of these drivers, they know what they know be it NASCAR, Indy, WEC, IMSA, F1 and their feeder programs and paths. The dirt oval with a sprint car is just another small piece of a large pie.

[dsc1600]

It outdrew Daytona because of Daytona’s rain delay and the overall decline of interest in Nascar. Don’t get me wrong, i love that the 500 is on an upswing and IndyCar and F1 have a lot of momentum right now, but let’s not oversell it. It’s a small rebirth after a crushing defeat for 20 plus years. I hope it continues, but it’s a first step, not anything more.

[Brickyard]

Originally Posted by dsc1600 It outdrew Daytona because of Daytona’s rain delay and the overall decline of interest in Nascar. Don’t get me wrong, i love that the 500 is on an upswing and IndyCar and F1 have a lot of momentum right now, but let’s not oversell it. It’s a small rebirth after a crushing defeat for 20 plus years. I hope it continues, but it’s a first step, not anything more.

Correct, but let's not forget that there have also been delayed Daytona races in that post '95 era that outdrew the 500. It's a work in progress and a very complex thing and not as simple of a fix, as some here think, as a series and race of nothing but Brady Bacons.