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1/29/23, 10:09 PM   #21
Re: Is the system broken?
Stevensville Mike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Nungester View Post
I think the topic has been hashed to death honestly.
Oh no, Chuck. It's time for a thread hijack!

Getting back to watching the Rolex 24 Hours at Daytona, as USA/NBC went to their "night crew", they had a reporter in the pits interviewing various drivers.

Georgia Henneberry!

Good to see a Flo Racing dirt track reporter getting the call up for an event of the sort! Best hopes for her, her future, and the continuing coverage of the enduro!

....and now, back to the Hoosier tire debate. Or as they say in the English lands, Hoosier tyre debate, ol' chap.
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1/30/23, 9:34 AM   #22
flagboy55
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76 I’m good, as always great to hear from you. Anyway when I started this thread it was to have a discussion about a concern voiced by one of the hosts of the Dirt Nerds podcast. I don’t want to speak for Duane, but my interpretation of his comments was the price of tires was concerning, as with everything. He is very much in tune with the sport as he runs the AFCS series. Always great to have Stevensville chime in and bring some good information. We missed you at the Chill Bowl party this year. Myself, I was just wondering if there might be a better way to price tires. It’s why I asked a question. As far as some people go, they must just be miserable to let a topic like this irritate them so much
 
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1/30/23, 10:56 AM   #23
Re: Is the system broken?
BrentTFunk
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This is nothing more than capitalism at work. Hoosier, like all other companies, are not in business to make tires. They are in business to make money. They do it by making tires. They find the top price that people will pay, and charge that. That maximizes profit. It happens every day, with every product. It always has and always will.
Yes the price seems high to me, but I thought gas was too expensive when it went to a dollar a gallon back in the day.
 
1/30/23, 11:35 AM   #24
Re: Is the system broken?
The Old Coyote
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentTFunk View Post
This is nothing more than capitalism at work. Hoosier, like all other companies, are not in business to make tires. They are in business to make money. They do it by making tires. They find the top price that people will pay, and charge that. That maximizes profit. It happens every day, with every product. It always has and always will.
Yes the price seems high to me, but I thought gas was too expensive when it went to a dollar a gallon back in the day.
Brent,
You hit the nail right on the head!
I recall a gruff old VP of Manufacturing at a company I was working at quiz a trainee on what we made at that plant. The naive kid ran through a list of all the products like like a happy little puppy. The old VP told him NO! WE MAKE MONEY! He too hit the nail on the head.

God Bless Capitalism!
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1/30/23, 12:13 PM   #25
Re: Is the system broken?
Tim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Coyote View Post
Brent,
You hit the nail right on the head!
I recall a gruff old VP of Manufacturing at a company I was working at quiz a trainee on what we made at that plant. The naive kid ran through a list of all the products like like a happy little puppy. The old VP told him NO! WE MAKE MONEY! He too hit the nail on the head.

God Bless Capitalism!
Yeah, I had the same thing happen with me but, unfortunately, I couldn't let it go. When the VP of the company I worked for replied that the company made money rather than product, I replied that we were therefore in the wrong business - We should be selling illicit drugs and our revenue/profit would then skyrocket.

It wasn't popular with the brass but my peers loved it. Sometimes the humor is worth the punishment.

Tim Simmons
 
1/30/23, 12:21 PM   #26
Re: Is the system broken?
revjimk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentTFunk View Post
This is nothing more than capitalism at work. Hoosier, like all other companies, are not in business to make tires. They are in business to make money. They do it by making tires. They find the top price that people will pay, and charge that. That maximizes profit. It happens every day, with every product. It always has and always will.
Yes the price seems high to me, but I thought gas was too expensive when it went to a dollar a gallon back in the day.
Correct
I remember when gas hit 55 cents during the 1973 oil embargo, & lots of people saying if it ever hit $1, they would stop driving
Joke's on us....
 
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1/30/23, 12:30 PM   #27
TQ29m
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I have to disagree, I'd call a"forced monopoly ", which may be the way our country is headed! I may be too old to understand how this is better for everyone, but being old, having been now thru both systems, who ever is steering, is headed for a bad finish, JMHO.
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1/30/23, 1:16 PM   #28
Re: Is the system broken?
Jonr
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I know that I am in the minority, but I think the tire rule actually helps the racers. I remember when some of the late model series had open tires and spent more on tires that when they had a tire rule. Racers are their own worst enemy. In the end, they are going to buy the tires that help them go the fastest. If brand X is the fastest on a heavy track, and brand Y is the fastest on a dry slick track, and brand z is the fastest on a rubber down track. The racers are going to buy three sets of tires. By the way, since none of the brands are the official brand of the series, there will be no loyalty program or bonus program.
 
1/30/23, 2:30 PM   #29
Re: Is the system broken?
Pitdad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonr View Post
I know that I am in the minority, but I think the tire rule actually helps the racers. I remember when some of the late model series had open tires and spent more on tires that when they had a tire rule. Racers are their own worst enemy. In the end, they are going to buy the tires that help them go the fastest. If brand X is the fastest on a heavy track, and brand Y is the fastest on a dry slick track, and brand z is the fastest on a rubber down track. The racers are going to buy three sets of tires. By the way, since none of the brands are the official brand of the series, there will be no loyalty program or bonus program.
Thank you Jonr! You beat me to the punch. The only thing that's broken around here is this record that keeps being flopped onto the turntable. Racing is expensive. High level racing is not for everyone. If you want to race cheap, then buy a Hornet, or Roadrunner, or whatever your local track calls a 4 cylinder stock car, and have a blast. Competing and winning is fun no matter what the level is.

Open tire rules cause everyone that wants to run up front to have to buy ALL of the tires available because just as Jonr points out, Goodyear may be best for dry tracks and McCreary may be best for tacky tracks and Hoosier works best on short, tight tracks... We went to a single tire supplier with a spec tire to keep those that didn't have unlimited means from having to buy every type of tire size, hardness, and brand out there to remain competitive. "Leveling the playing field", we're all running the "same" tire. One size, one compound, one brand... Problem is, those with unlimited funds will still find ways to spend them. If everyone is required to use the spec tire, then the big dogs buy 20 of them, mount them, measure them, grade them for size variation so they have a tuning advantage on stagger and hardness (because all tires, even properly cured ones, will vary on the finished diameter and range of hardness).

In the old days (that everyone is so fond of misremembering), a tire war was a BAD thing because it meant more tire failures and accidents. One brand would decide they were going to jump into a series that was running a single brand of tires and introduce a softer compound or change their sidewall stiffness, anything that would bring them short term success. Everyone would flock to those tires, so the original tire manufacturer would change their design and eventually, somebody would go too far and the drivers and teams would pay the price in crashes. One spec tire meant the manufacturer who was AWARDED the contract would know they could invest the engineering necessary to build purpose built tire for the series. They could afford to provide technical support, analyze failures and make adjustments that would keep the tires technology from being the differentiator. NASCAR did it (does it). Indy Car did it (does it). It makes sense for them.

Then dirt organizations got into the act and for a time, it was a good deal for them as well. But then we all started complaining that if I wanted to run with multiple series, because we're all about freedom and not being tied down to one club or organization, we had to buy McCrearys to run with one club and Hoosiers to run with a different sanction! It was a barrier to entry because I wasn't planning to run that many races with them, so why do I have to buy their tires! So in steps Hoosier, and they do a tremendous job of selling everyone on the idea that if you'll choose from their catalog of tires, and make that tire your spec tire, they'll kick you back some sponsorship money and everyone wins! The tire is legal at multiple tracks, with multiple sanctions, and everyone is using it, so nobody has an "advantage". Hoosier gains the manufacturing efficiency of being able to reduce the variety of tires they offer which lowers inventories on slow moving tires. They can increase their batch sizes (because unfortunately, tire manufacturing is a batch process instead of a one-piece flow), so it DOES actually reduce their manufacturing costs, which justifies paying out sponsorship money for exclusively using their tires.

Then a freak supply chain disruption that affects the entire world happens, and they rush to produce tires to backfill a void cause by this freak event, and now they don't know how to make tires any longer and the only thing that will solve the problem is anarchy and an open tire rule...

I don't know what the solution is, because the goal keeps changing. One week it's affordable tires, next week it's competitive tires, the next week it's freedom to use whatever tires. What I can suggest is for clubs and sanctioning bodies to do a better job of negotiating their tire deals. Don't keep renewing your tire deal out of convenience. Secondly, if American Racer is going to be a player in what is now a multinational corporate battle (because as has been pointed out on this thread, Hoosier is owned by Continental, not the Newtons), they need to pick a niche and work to be the best at it. Winged sprints, wingless, midgets, micros, whatever. I don't think they can be all things to all people. If they have success in taking down the elephant that now occupies the room, others may follow. And also we need to be prepared for some Chinese brands to start infiltrating the market. That will undoubtedly ruffle the "buy American" crowd, just like Triple X chassis did. I don't remember the brand, but I was surprised a few PRI shows back to see a Chinese tire manufacturer with a booth promoting the idea that they could supply dirt tires.

But until then...
 
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1/30/23, 2:33 PM   #30
Re: Is the system broken?
NoDramazone2020
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Everything is more expensive these days. Hoosier has the right and obligation to its owners and backers to make money, no doubt about it....At the end of the day, yes, they should be in business to make money.....as long as they can provide a good and safe product, no issues as I see it. If they do not make money, they go out of business....just like race tracks...no money, no business...

Flagboy, settle down....
 
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