Pennsylvania Perspective

flagboy55 · 6/5/22, 10:08 AM

One of our IOW legends Charles brought out an interesting topic on another thread. I’m not saying this to be verbatim, and Chuck please correct me if I’ve misinterpreted your thoughts. But Charles basically implied over saturation of wingless sprint car racing in our great Hoosier state is leading to a slow death of that type of racing. That and a lack of cooperation among tracks when bigger shows are run. I certainly agree with him on the later. But the first part got me thinking, which can usually be dangerous, but how do they do it with so many wing tracks in Pennsylvania? I might be all wet on my perception from a 600 mile distance, but I’ve always likened Wings in Pa, to Wingless here. I’ve never even been to Pennsylvania so my vantage point might be off, but is that a fair comparison? I would like to get some thoughts from folks that have experience with both. I’m sure my bud Yeleyfan76 can help me out on this

dsc1600 · 6/5/22, 12:05 PM

There's only 3 Central PA tracks that run weekly, you can't put western PA into the PA Posse equation. I am not sure how many tracks run weekly wingless sprints, but it's more than 3. But the biggest difference in Central PA and Indiana is....to Posse fans sprint cars are the pinnacle. They love them and will support any big race around. No matter the sanction, WoO, All Stars, non-sanctioned whatever. A perfect example of this is last night. Non-sanctioned Steve Smith Sr tribute at Lincoln. $19k to win, packed house, other than Pittman and Thorson, not a national name to be found. All Central PA guys, packed house.

There are alot of race fans in Indiana, but the sprint car fan base is smaller. Some may be passionate about pavement, others dirt. Some are living in the past and want it to be 1977 again. Some are focused on IndyCar etc... But there's not as large a sprint car focus as there is in Central PA, which is why those tracks can thrive and be successful.

jonboat15 · 6/5/22, 12:07 PM

Lifelong PA resident here, still live less than two hours from several sprint car tracks. I have seen a lot of winged racing and still do. I have seen so much winged racing I kind of get sick of it. I started following non wing racing in '84 and its my favorite and have waited a long time to see it here.
Back to our winged stuff, I think the car counts are decent here but some teams are running out of parts. I don't believe sprint car racing in PA is suffering too much, not really seeing over saturation. Plenty of 305's, plenty of 358's, enough 410's to go around. I've been to 14 races and I think they all have paid a minimum of 5 thousand to win. I have to scratch my head when I see some Indiana tracks only paying 1,500-2,000 to win with basically is the same general admission price as here in PA.

Charles Nungester · 6/5/22, 12:27 PM

I welcome a discussion on this as long as it's done respectfully to each other and to the tracks and racers.

I think the biggest night we've had in Sprint car count this year was about 90 cars which means there are probably another 30-40 who've raced at least once. Perspective is 2014's Bill Gardners 2014 indiana sprint car standings which shows 188 cars had raced on dirt in In Indiana by the end of June of that year. Thanks Bill (RIP) and Mrs. G for leaving that thread up.

2013 showed 233 ran a race non wing in Indiana on dirt.

I say this to show there is only enough to support So many tracks on each night given friday and sunday are hard for many teams to make and that 90% of the teams can only run one or two nights a week, If that.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Port is the only PA track getting great car counts. Many of the others can't support four heats or a consi.

Funny thing happened to us in 2008 We were out in PA /NY/NJ amusment park tour for two weeks. Saturday we leave Elysburg for Hershey. Throw a timing belt and wait for three hours to get tow truck around noonish. I bet fifty race cars passed us while we were sitting there. The repair shop was just up the street from Big Diamond Which was off that night) Anyway 2008 was also a year Gas hit over 4.00 a gallon, the highways and amusement parks were bare Far off normal attendance)

jonboat15 · 6/5/22, 1:04 PM

Lincoln Speedway has had good car counts, always four heats. 358's also four heats. As I mentioned earlier car counts are pretty darn good on Saturday nights. Williams Grove has a hard time getting a full field on Friday when they are the only track running though. I'd love to see Path Valley run 410s on Friday nights.

k-bob · 6/6/22, 7:38 AM

Hi. Long time reader, new poster. PA subject drew me in.

Lived OH til 90 and saw all 80s IN sprints and USAC (hewitt hood butler vogler). Great stuff of course. Since '90, near Philly so PA sprints and love Eastern mods (all the sliding! and speed, self starting, less wrecks and danger to drivers).

Subject of PA versus IN reminded me of the idea that the Grove sprints may not have big numbers but they are a weekly track w long straights and trying to have cars that compete w WoO and ascoc. Very high costs.

There is a great podcast episode with Richie Tobias that mentions the subject
The cost of eastern race cars. Try putting "big block modified podcast mike griswold" in google. Episode 77.

Tobias with a driving, building, Race shop, and promotion background really knows a lot.

He thinks we're a little bit crazy to be running such expensive cars and I think he's referring to the Williams Grove Sprint cars and then the Eastern modifieds fantastic cars... on Saturday night

So that's going to hurt the car counts but it still can be great racing particularly modifieds at Bridgeport

Speaking of Bridgeport as a first-time poster this forum ... I would like to thank some Anonymous USACer and Levi Jones who FedExed my wallet to me after I lost it there at a usac race last year... cash included. !

Thanks also for this really sharp for him

PJ Wright · 6/6/22, 7:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-bob

I would like to thank some Anonymous USACer and Levi Jones who FedExed my wallet to me after I lost it there at a usac race last year... cash included. !

Very cool!

opnwhlmnd · 6/6/22, 8:51 AM

Hard to compare central PA with Indiana. Take Williams Grove they are 1.5 hours from Baltimore, 2 hours from Philly. Way way more population near central PA to draw from than Indiana.

k-bob · 6/6/22, 9:05 AM

A track that runs a "PA" sprint race around a lot of people is bridgeport nj... just across the river from Pennsylvania, only maybe 15 mi south of philly... I live in a Southern Philadelphia suburb and I could vaguely hear the Big Block mids when they ran over there

I looked up the timing in that Richie Tobias podcast... he's laughing at about 23 or 24 minutes in 'bout how we eastern race fans dont seem to understand that the issues with running $100,000 race cars on a weekly basis.. hes a good storyteller ...

Great episode w van may there as well

Tobias has the cool idea with the Speedster that if you get well known drivers racing in less expensive cars you can pay them more !

chrismattlin · 6/6/22, 1:33 PM

My home track, Lawrenceburg, is a 1 hour drive from Dayton, Ohio and Lexington, Kentucky. It is a 2 hour drive to Columbus, Ohio; Louisville, Kentucky; and Indianapolis, Indiana.

Just wondering out loud, but does Williams Grove really have that much of an advantage being able to draw from Philly and Baltimore over Lawrenceburg?

Besides, in my experience, it's much more of a chore making a trip from Philly to Harrisburg than it is to make a trip from Louisville to Cincinnati. (Don't get me started on that danged turnpike!)