[LocalYokel]

300+ full "D1" cars running in Tulsa right now, and the solution to fix midget racing is to pad the field with "D2" cars?
The issue that needs to be fixed isn't motors, it's why are those 300+ cars not running any other races? Lots of reasons for that, and those reasons will still be there with the "D2" midgets.
I hope at least they restrict the "D1" midgets in a reasonable manner, such as restricting airflow. I really hope that they don't follow USAC's lead and try to restrict RPM...

[PatrickMead#13]

Originally Posted by jjones752 Check with Tracy Hull with IMRA, Johnny Murdock @ BAM (racing associations who would be happy to point you in the right direction), or SET Racing & MWR, who sell Ecotec packages. You can either buy a motor "prepped" with all of the plumbing, headers etc. for up to around $7,000 (a bargain for a Midget engine), or try you luck at Pic-a-part for about $450 and work out the fussy bits yourself. I've seen a few complete DMA (Quad-4) midgets from New England for sale on Hoseheads for 5-7 grand, too.

Jim,
So is it bad that I picked up a 2014 2.2 ecotec with 2,100 miles on it last month at pick and pull for $189? It would've been $149 if it wasn't for the core charge.....lol You can put all the high quality parts from many of our midget racing partners out there and when the engine pops, remove it, and for another $149, you're ready to go again. I bought a focus engine complete on eBay a few years back with 4,900 miles on it for a measly $75. There's some many of them out there for good prices that folks can really put money into chassis setup and renting a track for seat time because let's face it, motors are one thing. Setting a car up is another. The big one which no amount of money is gonna buy is getting the legs, arms, and most importantly, the driver's brain on the right track.

I'm thrilled to see a club moving forward and exploring the newer technologies out there. It's also great to see some big names in this thread discussing and sharing their thoughts and ideas as well. I have to refer back to fan appreciation night at Montpelier last season when I had a kid's dad ask if my car was a midget or mini sprint. Before I opened my mouth, his little boy sitting in my driver's seat at the time yelled out "Dad, who cares! It's a racecar and I'm sitting in it!!!" When we got shooting past the stands at 80-100mph, the fans get their money's worth of entertainment rather it's a crotch rocket or automotive engine under the hood. They see we are nuts for doing it and obviously have them for doing it..... That's where I see some of the points in this discussion where the "most discussed racecars" as I call them at this point gets dicey amongst different folks and different series'. I'm one of the cheapest guys making the haul to the Hoosier state and having fun is why I do it. I let the powers that be think how to manage a series or invent the rules, I just fall in line and a big grin on my face when the green flag drops.

[flagboy55]

Yokel hit the nail on the head. Let's hope the fact that fuel is much less expensive then it has been the last couple years will help more people race more often, and more fans to come watch.

[jjones752]

Pat
It's not bad at all, Brother; you did good. I'm right there with you one the cheap scale, and I think you know that the grin under my helmet is as big as yours, especially on those rare occasions when we get to go wheel-to-wheel.
Brad, I respect your opinion a great deal as someone who's been around this sport for a long time. I may seem to get all wrapped up about this "chain or no chain" deal but most of it is with my tongue firmly in my cheek, and it's the path I chose to take to (relatively) inexpensively participate in a sport that I'm passionate about. After around 2 years of getting back into the fellowship of racers and knowing what I know now I may have gone a different direction (i.e. a more "traditional" driveline, with automotive power) but it is what it is and I aim to make the most of it until the Zonker blows. I'm appreciative of the opportunities I have to race, whether it's at my home track or those times I've been welcomed out on the road. I probably won't travel as far as Wisconsin this year so my opinion really doesn't matter; I just know that a very simple, open set of rules seems to be working at Montpelier. It's sure working for me and Pat, and that's really all I wanted to communicate.

[DAD]

My observations:

1. The Chili Bowl is not really a Midget race, it is a happening that just happens to have a bunch of Midget races thrown in for good measure. Many of the cars that race there only make it out once a year as a cash cow rental for their owners. Many of the regular drivers of many of the cars racing there are not in the seat but let themselves be replaced with a bunch of Fantasy Island racers who but for once a year have never been up close and personal with a midget. The racers make this sacrifice to help finance next years racing program. You might call the new midget racers hazards or obstacles for the few serious racers entered in the program try and miss to continue on in the count down. The Chili Bowl is a place to meet and greet friends of the past and rub elbows with the who's who in racing. There isn't much going on in mid January so Tulsa is as good of place as any.

2.Gas prices are coming down, hopefully that will turn loose some extra coins to race on.

3. Mini sprints are not the car of the future. They came along as the Japanese motorcycle manufactures were exporting millions of motorcycles to the US. They were very powerful when compared to their size. They made it possible to build very fast and economical race cars. Chain was the simplest and most inexpensive way to drive them.

4. Automobile manufactures have made great strides in the last 15 years or so and are improving their technology exponentially as we speak.

5. The modern 4 valve automotive engine was not even in existence in the 80's when the mini sprint concept was developed. You might say that Mini Sprints even with their very highly developed stock engine platforms are "Old School". Production of motorcycles known as "crotch rockets" are down to a very small percentage of what they were in the 90's. Supply is drying up and other racing classes are coming on line to use them in their forms of racing, making them more expensive. We are buying engine today with mileage numbers we would have turned our back on a few years ago.

6. Meanwhile automotive engines have become very sophisticated and powerful, maybe not to the very impressive numbers of the motorcycle industry but there is very little comparison between a Pinto of the 70's and an Echotec of today. The Echotec and even Honda's are designed for ordinary drivers and are classed as economy class engines. On the other hand the auto makers have designated motors in the 3.0 liter to 3.5 liter as their performance motors. Many of these would probably make an outstanding and very powerful and dependable race motors for Midgets and are still not very large physically.

7. After saying all of those good things about the motors of today they are already becoming dated as for as automotive design and manufactures are concerned. Now in the interest of efficiency the Automotive people are looking at even smaller engines, higher compression ratios, and forced induction. Force induction has always been a four letter word to circle track people but that was mostly because of the perceived very high cost of low production units. Now they come as stock equipment on new automobiles. Maybe it's time for rule makers to start exploring forced induction systems and how to regulate them. (USAC and their darned cheap pop off valves).

8.I don't think we need be too concerned about chain drive>>> safe or unsafe>>> insurance company or no insurance company. Chain drive will take care of itself. With the cost of chains and sprockets and the extra extra work required to keep them up they will just gradually disappear on their own. Do Not rule them out. Each one of those cars and racers are just like Patrick Mead up at Montpelier. They are racers and they are competitive but in the end the drive line will win over with the invent of the newer automotive motors. Just don't outlaw a lot of your field because of their drive system. At this point in time we need all the racers we can get our hands on.

9. Be very strict about stock block and stock head, (to the point of no modification period in the lower classes). Now in the "Double A" division (a word way older than most of the readers on IOW) still require stock blocks and heads, But perhaps allow V6 motor and a larger displacements and open modifications. Keep them Russian owned Titanium company's in business.

10. If you leave yourselves room for competition to develop new concepts the best will always win out and the breed will improve and prosper into the future.

Honest Dad himself

[R.Drang]

Why does everyone want to cut back the intake of the national engines? A few guys (myself included) have done that. The engines are not built for that. Make them add weight. If a guy can afford a new Toyota, he sure as hell can afford some lead.

[Kellen Conover]

I think at the end of the day, we are talking about two different groups of racers. I have no problem with using these production based motors and if it helps some guys get a car on the track and enjoy themselves it's a fantastic thing. But I also don't think we should consider penalizing a guy who wants to spend his money on a current platform National style engine and in most cases these two racers aren't going to be going head to head for a vast amount of reasons. That being said, if running these motors in a regional type series allows for the R&D to get them to being a viable replacement for our current national motors at a mere fraction of the current prices (under $10,000 in my opinion) then we will all win in the end.

[sday27]

I'm hoping for no chain drivin engines. Run them like the focus setup. definitely want some kind of a clutch so there isn't that time wasted pushing cars off.

[darnall]

Last night at the chilibowl an ecotec powered car went from 7th to 3rd in it's heatrace, ran 6th in the qualifier, and was in 3rd in a B when he got black flagged for having a muffler fall off.

[micro23]

This is a really good read. Keep it going.