80 post on this subject 20 by one person .

Interesting to say the least. A lot of

Don't read em. Real simple.

What was his wish exactly for those races and associations?

I guess too many of us old farts, remember how it was right after WWll, midget's, and 3/4 midgets, were about the fare, as far as open wheel racing went, sprint cars hadn't been invented yet, but big cars had, which is where sprint cars evolved, but it seemed like midgets, and the roadsters, were about it, except for all forms of stock cars. That's the good times I remember most, and I dabbled a bit in all of these forms of open, and nuetered tin top racing, then in about 1958, go-karts came along, something that didn't require a huge investment up front, we carried them in the trunks of our cars, and on the way home from work, we'd "race" for a while, then go home, then that caught on, and anyone who "professionally" raced go-karts, remembers what happened, still one the the best kept secrets around, but it grew, and is still growing. I realize that to have as many classes as the karters do today, would be impossible to have a Sat night "midget" show, and have all the classes that could be considered "midgets", get it all in in one evening, but, just for instance, "if" there were enough "midgets" with the correct chassis, and "engines" of comparable hp ratings, racing together, as they are doing at Montpelier, and in Illinois, and maybe somewhere else, could this not be maybe the beginning of the "resurection" of the midget racing that so many of us were involved in? Not to infer that I don't like the current"high" tier of midget racing, but the cost does limit the numbers, in my humble opinion, and at my age, I'm not saying I could participate, but, I would be interested in trying to somehow afford to do it, with a lower cost engine program, the sprint cars seem to have a good following, whether it's 410's, 360's, 305's, or some of the other engine sizes they have, the engine seems to be the "limiting" factor in the growth, when you throw out a number like 15k for an engine alone, that starts the limit of someone moving to a midget, I know, to some folks, it wouldn't make any difference if it was a YO-YO, they'd find someone who for enough beans, would build them the fire breathing YO-YO they wanted, and in a flash, it'd be right back to just a few, then it'd be something else, I'd just like to see midget's, with the numbers that sprintcars have, and someone willing to put on an open wheel show, with sprints and midgets together, more often then happens now, I don't think it's impossible, but enough people have to be willing to put the fun back in it, and not see how much money they can put in it, just like go-karts, we went from hauling them in the trunk of our cars, to big fancy haulers, almost in a weekend, myself included, same with everything else, RC cars, but somewhere, there has to be a middle of the road approach, to putting midgets back in line, where more folks can afford it, the big money motors won't go away, but they will still be an important part of the equation, but at least open up the budget end, and see what happens. Bob

Ya know, I've kind of checked out from this whole scene - I haven't even looked at this site in quite a while but after the long absence... nothing has changed!

I LOVE this sport. So much so, that many years ago I changed professions so that I could do something I thought might help (Ford Focus program). For my trouble I got my head bashed in on this board and elsewhere from people who either felt I was not doing things properly or from people who's egos were so fragile that they thought my success might obscure theirs. I won't argue who had the better point but I will point out that in the aftermath of that program, a large percentage of the National Midget fields have been comprised of drivers with seat time in a focus. Along the way a lot of 'joe six pack' guys also got to race a midget that otherwise would not have - these were the only goals I ever had for that program.

That program has now come and gone. I don't think it needed to die the agonizing death that it did but thats water under the bridge at this point. So now, Midget racing is back to where it was before that program, only worse on account of this economy. We have a 'National' program (two actually if you count USAC), and several others who try their best to emulate the 'national' deal along with a few that don't even try (probably the smartest of the bunch IMO).

After all of the debate and commentary, I believe this is really a fairly simple situation.

- Engine technology in Midget racing has fallen seriously behind the curve. As a result, associated costs and duty cycles do not compare favorably with other forms of racing and this is costing us participants

- These same costs mean that prevailing payouts can't even make a dent in operating costs - this hurts the blue collar guy and further depletes our count.

- A stalemate has developed between those struggling to keep existing designs viable, and those who realize that new technology is the key to the survival of the sport.

None of the above is unusual - this is the same story that has played out in many other forms of racing. Interestingly, one of the things that makes Midget racing so great - our desire to stick to our roots and our traditions - is the same thing that is making evolution of our sport so difficult. For over 50 years now Midget racing has managed to find the right balance between tradition and relevance. I think we've missed a chance to remain relevant in today's market, and I think the trouble we are having is a reflection of that. I know that racing in general is struggling these days but we are struggling a lot more than most.

In this economy, the herd gets thinned and I think we'd better start thinking seriously about what we're gonna do to avoid becoming hamburger. Getting serious about creating an alternative engine formula - one that allows existing designs to remain competitive but introduces new technology in a controlled fashion - appears to me to be our best way forward at this point. And, I can't think of a single reason why we should NOT do this, unless the decision is made that what we want to do, as a sport, is to become the most awesome, bad-to-the-bone VINTAGE division in all of racing.

I think I can relate to a lot of what your saying, and I too, have had water thrown on my fire, by someone who I was helping, and whom I considered a "friend", but the passion is still there, it's just that I no longer go,where I'm not welcome! Bob!

TQ29 Gets it !

the thing about leaving the sport is that those who leave rarely come back.

Polecar, If you could buy a new engine for 32,500 or a used one for 25,000 would that be incentive to get you back to the track.