[Charles Nungester]

Originally Posted by monkeyboy 7500 10grand? That's a big payout? Usac doesn't even have a "crown jewel" paying race. To borrow a late model term. Look at what other "national"series pay.

Yeah and you pay 40 bucks to get in, You going to pay that when you can go to one of four other tracks on saturday night and see as many cars for 13-15 bucks? Hav a tampa still around? How many times the WoO file bankruptcy and bounce checks? Even this year a bunch of tracks cancelled their WoO LM races for some reason. Team, sure they are going to go where the best RoI is. Why beat your equipment at a track paying 800-1400 to win when some series pay that to start.

People come for the format and the car count and the fact that is 7 races in 9 days. The gates reasonable for the quality of competition.

We could talk purses all day but I can show you some early 70s races that paid 12 grand or more to win and the competitors didn't have 7 grand in their entire car. Now some have 70grand not including spares.

The post was about USAC midgets, more specifically pavement midgets. It needs several things. contingency sponsors, a motor that would last 20+ races, Some incentives.

All the series could do with more media and TV exposure. With that comes sponsorship, not the other way around, When you get out to more than 2 or 3 thousand at the tracks, many who are the same people at many tracks. Bigger sponsors aren't going to look twice. If you can put their product in front of a quarter million or more. NOW YOUR TALKING

[sp6967]

if sprint week wasn't usac sanctioned it would pay 2500 to win and 225 to start.

[Pat O'Connor Fan]

It is highly likely that Indiana Sprint Week would have died years ago if it weren't for all of the hard work Bill Marvel did to revive it and get it under USAC sanction.

[monkeyboy]

Ya chuck I would gladly pay 40 bones and skip some local shows for that. I do it for the kings royal or north/south. I'm not saying with or without usac. I just think that sprint cars need a crown jewel.

[streetglider]

Charles I was an original subscriber to Open Wheel magazine and have not missed a single Indiana Sprint week since its inception. I didn't say I wanted to get rid of USAC, I was simply stating the fact that with some cooperation between tracks, it would survive on its own. As for the Kevin Miller comment, I don't have a dog in that hunt!!!! But since you brought it up......I think he is highly over paid for not putting any money or his bal%s on the line..........when a team like Steve& Carla Phillips runs every event & gets a whopping 10 grand (if they would win the title) that's a slap in the face IMHO . Just think of fuel cost, hotels, usac registration & pit passes for these events..... and that doesn't even count a single car part or tire yet.
*please note that I am not affiliated with or speak for the 71P team , I am using them as an example , but these are the type of people that USAC was established with & for.

[Charles Nungester]

Im not dissagreeing with several points that have been made. Some crown Jewels would be nice. Some shots at 25g or more shows to win, This year we lost the Ultimate Challenge. A couple years ago the Oval Nationals purse was cut, came back a bit last year. I'd love to see a third of the USAC shows being big money races that some outside the series would invade to try to win it, I remember a couple years before Hewitt won all four crown races Earl had put up ten grand each feature. Now imagine Hewitt taking home 20 grand in one day after split with the teams. Why didn't' this *Take off*? One reason I always thought was because the four crown is in Sept when schools are in. friday night football etc. Instead of a July race people would go camp at and not much else besides MLB going on in sports.

I also agree, to get teams to tow across country a few times is going to take some major payback in either purse or championship money all the way to tenth. Teams don't come across the country for Sprint Week because its a USAC show. Or the Oval Nationals. they do it because they are events. One of you posted about Phillips, I doubt their success at Oval Nationals even covered the travel expenses. They are certainly doing it for love of the sport as most of the teams are. There is no $$$ in ownership unless you got a corporate sponsor paying the bills or can write most of it off as advertising on your own company.

This is the last I'll post on this thread, It needs some more in the know than I am to fix it and someones willingness and hard work to make things work. Im no expert, far from it. The people who can tell you the realities are the Kuhns etc.

By all means, Carry on the discussion. Like I said before, I don't think any idea is stupid, but there is reality to what would work and what don't.
Chuck

P.S. and several of them events that are out there, The Kings Royals, North Souths etc were something tracks built up for several years before they became the success they are. The sanction guaranteed most of the stars on their classes showed up after it grew to a certain point. Yeah, USAC's played that same card. Someone has a big race, Schedule against em till they either stop or join in. Lucas, WoO have done the same thing.

[i love dirt track racing]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester Might want to check your fact sheet as most purses are same as local shows or less. However its a series run by a racer who treats his people right, He gets a sponsor, he adds heat race money, contingencies, hard luck, steel block, hooser/american racer, no matter. Most of all, he personally thanks the teams and promoters. Built his own race track for feeder which many may not even become sprint car racers. Boss is a good thing, We need series like it for midgets running NE Indiana, NW OH and a few other venues around the area. IL Has Powri PA has ARDC. Could you see Midgets at Waynesfield FIVE WIDE like at the Burg? I can dream.........

I would love to see boss run at gas city and kokomo and lps i would think that tss would be out. But every time that i see them run they put on a great show. I will give them credit they love there racing teams and race fans. Give them a couple years and they will be knocking on some doors.

[larsonfan]

Originally Posted by i love dirt track racing I would love to see boss run at gas city and kokomo and lps i would think that tss would be out. But every time that i see them run they put on a great show. I will give them credit they love there racing teams and race fans. Give them a couple years and they will be knocking on some doors.

I don't think it's even going to be a couple of years - I think BOSS is going to evolve sooner than that.

[Indy]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester Yeah and you pay 40 bucks to get in, You going to pay that when you can go to one of four other tracks on saturday night and see as many cars for 13-15 bucks? Hav a tampa still around? How many times the WoO file bankruptcy and bounce checks? Even this year a bunch of tracks cancelled their WoO LM races for some reason. Team, sure they are going to go where the best RoI is. Why beat your equipment at a track paying 800-1400 to win when some series pay that to start. People come for the format and the car count and the fact that is 7 races in 9 days. The gates reasonable for the quality of competition. We could talk purses all day but I can show you some early 70s races that paid 12 grand or more to win and the competitors didn't have 7 grand in their entire car. Now some have 70grand not including spares. The post was about USAC midgets, more specifically pavement midgets. It needs several things. contingency sponsors, a motor that would last 20+ races, Some incentives. All the series could do with more media and TV exposure. With that comes sponsorship, not the other way around, When you get out to more than 2 or 3 thousand at the tracks, many who are the same people at many tracks. Bigger sponsors aren't going to look twice. If you can put their product in front of a quarter million or more. NOW YOUR TALKING

I'm not 100% sure but didn't the Thunder Series on ESPN accelerate the cost of pavement racing? When the series moved from the Speedrome to IRP the need for a pavement only car became essential. The one lesson learned from TV is you can't bask in the now you still need to control the cost for the future.

[RetiredShoe]

This has been a lot of fun to read; I don't get much time to catch up but I am glad I did. However, unless I am mistaken I haven't seen much about lowering costs. We are concerned about car counts and specialized dirt and pavement cars, which is a problem because of how expensive these cars are to put together and race. The default answer for this always seems to be "Hey, lets go get more sponsorship to help pay for this stuff" but the fact is that sponsorship is hard to come by and the amount guys have to ask for doesn't help much. If we could find a way to lower costs it isn't as hard to put together a series that runs both dirt and pavement.

With that said, this task is monumental; it would take a reform of the entire industry almost. Engines, shocks, tires etc... the list goes on and on. It was mentioned that the same amount (or close to it) of prize money was paid out in 1979 as was paid out in 2009 and the reason it worked back then and doesn't now is because the cars and components are more expensive. Yes, we would like prize funds and sponsorship income to grow, but the fact of the matter is that if it doesn't we have to make hard decisions to ensure that the sport can survive without them.

If we could get someone in place (because Miller is not the answer, obviously) who would be willing to make these hard decisions it would be a good start. Yet this person would also be vilified here at first. Anytime we talk about going backwards with technology or taking things away from the cars automatically triggers something in us that makes us think we are neutering the cars. However, if it comes down to the viability and survival of the series we love the most, would you be willing to see them go a little slower?

Limit what can be done to the engines and make them last longer. Make the tires smaller, harder and cheaper. Lower these costs to where it works now, then when the TV deals work out go looking for sponsorship and all of the sudden the sport has more money than we know what to do with. It takes someone to regulate these things however, and it will be a dirty job.

I'm not saying this can be done or even if it is the answer, but it's a good discussion topic for sure.